I don’t often use this blog for posting opinion pieces, but this is definitely one.
Obviously, like many wargamers I often post up pictures of my completed stuff online. Invariably the response is the same, and I’ve noticed that it’s the same for everybody else as well. Any comments will always be of the “looks great” variety, even when you see stuff posted that, well…isn’t great.
So, intrigued about whether other people feel the same way about that as me, I threw this quick poll up on Twitter:
Controversy time! What do you honestly want most from people when you post pics of finished miniatures?
— Tiny Hordes (@TinyHordes) August 26, 2018
Honestly, I think most people are looking for a little of both. But are we doing ourselves any favours by perpetuating this culture of zero criticism, even though most people actually do want your advice? Surely constructive criticism is a good thing?
Some sites like www.coolminiornot.com actually specialise in letting people critique each others’ miniatures.
Personally I actually find it a bit dissapointing when I post something and it only gets “looks great!” comments. I’m not a great painter, and maybe if people were a bit more forthcoming with advice I’d be a little bit better than I am.
Clearly, 57% of you out there feel similarly. I wonder if we’re being too nice, and worrying so much about hurting somebody’s feelings that we won’t actually offer any help or advice? That’s silly. We’re all big boys and girls and most of us can take feedback on board without tossing all of our toys out of the cot.
Of course, it’s easy to cause offence online, so it’s a good idea to phrase your feedback carefully. So I headed online to track down advice about good techniques for delivering useful criticism. Honestly much of what I found was a bit wet, and I find myself coming back to the classic “shit sandwich” method, where you bracket your critique between two compliments.
Some of the other advice that I found includes:
“Looks great!”
Compare the bad to the good
A variation of the “shit sandwich”, this helps by making sure you’re pointing out the good parts, too
Turn a critique into a question
Instead of “Your paint is too thick, you idiot.”, try “Have you tried thinning your paint?”. It sounds silly, but people do seem to react better if you’re talking about a solution instead of a problem.
Depersonalise it
Obviously. It’s not about them as a person, or even their skills. Just focus on results.
I’d love to hear any feedback you’ve got on the issue. Do you regularly give feedback online? Do you think some groups or environments are more open to it? Have you had a bad experience with criticism that you thought was harsh or poorly delivered? Let me know in the comments.
17 Responses to Wargamers are being too nice
Jon Yuengling says:
I personally say something looks good or great if I feel that way, but I often how someone got a particular effect. If a Camo pattern looks a little off I will ask for a reference. The hobby is a great community and often very helpful.
Than again I have stopped posting on TMP as I find as a forum but has a larger percentage of individuals that can be rude. So I now post and ask on the Lead Adventures Forumn. To each his own.
I myself post figures in progress and completed looking for input and also encouragement to keep going. Working in a basement or studio can be isolating and encouragement is welcome.
Thank you for the post.
Andy says:
Agreed, encouragement is important, but so is helpful advice I think. It’s all in the delivery.
Doug Melville says:
I do think we are too nice. It’s a fine line between discouraging people from trying and offering honest criticism. There’s also a group effect where you don’t want to be the one to be overly critical.
Andy says:
That’s an interesting point, Doug. I know I’ve often thought twice about being the first to offer criticism, when everybody else had offered nothing but praise.
Matt says:
Andy, thought provoking piece and I think you’re pretty much right. My own rule of thumb is “if I can’t say something nice then don’t say anything”. However I too have occasionally fallen back on the old “looks great” when stumped but still feeling in need of boosting the poster coz of the obvious efforts made. It’s like trying to reward the effort even if the results are a bit – err- mixed! Also, I would also prefer honest, constructive criticism on my stuff so as to get btter results in future.
Doug makes a good point about not wanting to appear critical when many others have posted only praise. It’s tricky subject but reading all this has made me re-consider my “up-commenting”. Thanks!
Greg P. says:
I think its the authors responsibility when they post something if they want honest feedback or not. Today’s society is so PC driven, it drives me crazy. I know on TMP if you post something negative or constructive criticism…you get blocked or tagged or something…so the repercussions could be a deterrent. I get that as you don’t want to discourage someone, as mentioned already, but sometimes, honesty can be brutal…and most folks cannot handle it, especially from a stranger. When I give a positive response, it is due to some really nice work…which I hope to replicate. I only give constructive criticism when the author of the pic wants it. I belong to a Facebook page called the “Mediocre Modelers Club”. I will only respond to those really nice looking kits presented; commenting on technique and overall appearance. For those which want that feedback, I give…but not in a spiteful way..and I always get the BIG thanks for the feedback. On your blog for example, I will comment, as I’ve done in the past, when I see something really cool…and/or it wow’d me. But will not say nothing negative, because I don’t know your personally, and I don’t want to get bounced from your page…you have a lot of cool stuff…especially the AARs. Hope this helps.
Andy says:
Greg, I can tell you now, nobody will get kicked from this site for posting their opinions. TMP is a cesspit, it’s not well run and doesn’t represent the norm.
Now if you post here trying to flog little blue pills or “hot MILFs in your area” you’ll feel the full wrath of the banhammer, but if you’ve got advice or comments consider this permanent permission to speak your brains.
Greg P. says:
Andy, Thank you!
Gillies says:
Relatively new to the wargames arena and to posting anything I’ve done online, I am more than happy to receive constructive criticism, especially if there is a method or route to follow. Something that lets me know HOW to improve. I’ve found if you ask a specific question about your work people can feel less inhibited about offering solutions, it also helps you target the areas you see as weakest. I would also suggest, being entirely honest with yourself (ourselves) you know which parts are weaker and need work so can ask specifically for comments, suggestions, ideas on that.
On the counter side I tend to comment on work I am inspired by rather than everything. And to be honest most of the work I’ve seen is of a good or better standard, but I only really see stuff via the TooFatLardies forum!
John Bond says:
I do like people commenting on my Blog , it at the very least lets me know that someone has seen and responded to my posts, even if its just “nice work” , I do get encouraged to post more and I try to reply to each person response,
I am also thank full that people have corrected me quite a few times, pointing out info that I am not up to date with eg colour of the insignia on a Recce Stuart. and the type of Half track the British used , what the Brits did with their MG’s on their half tacks and the ones on on top of Sherman tank. Even suggestions from people “how to modify a step in my process of building a piece of terrain to save time or make life easier.
Everyone is at a different skill level whether its painting minis or constructing Terrain , I know my first painted figures , looking back at them where a bit of a slap on paint job, very poor but people did encourage me to keep at it and slowly I started painting nicer minis.
I am a more capable painter of minis and terrain now ( and still learning) I do at this stage have a higher standard than others but I have to be careful not to compare a persons painted mini or terrain how is at a different level with my standard. There is a place for constructive criticism and it should as you pointed out lead to helping and encouraging the person not putting them down.
cheers John
Andy says:
Oh, I’m definitely not saying we shouldn’t encourage people. We should. But I think we should also feel empowered to offer advice too, and not worry about being seen as a troll for doing so.
By “constructive” criticism I do mean anything that’s intended to help the person improve. There’s no real excuse for just posting “this sucks” without explaining why or how to fix it.
You make a good point though about skill levels. But that begs the question: should we go easier on people at the bottom of the learning curve? To be honest I think it’s often the mediocre painters such as myself that can bene fit the most from advice. It’s easy to let your skills plateau after you reach a basic level of competence, and sometimes we need to be pushed out of the comfort zone a little. I also think people who’ve already churned out a decent amount of stuff and are reasonably confident are probably less likely to get offended. But being set in our ways we’re probably also the most likely to ignore advice from internet randoms!
John Bond says:
All true comments Andy, sometimes perception, can be the problem, what we perceive as trying to help someone with constructive criticism , might back fire as their may perceive it as bad criticism.
Milo Burgh says:
I don´t think that being nice is wrong. Worse is to be rude if you don´t like what you see. I many times comment in blogs and forums. If I like what I see, I say so. If I don´t like it, I don´t comment. I don´t need a beautifully painted mini or terrain for me to like it. The global effect is very important. Days ago someone posted pics form his modular dungeouns. They were not great individually, but in group they looked very nice for gaming. That is enough for me. Sometimes I´ll give my opinion or advice, but always politelly. I understand that sometimes we see awful models, but, who is going to say openly “man thats truly waful”? may be he is a new guy in the hobby, and he needs encouragement, not a destructive criticism.
Andy says:
Milo, I’m not suggesting being rude at all (quite the opposite). I’m suggesting that we should be more honest, and more willing to provide helpful and constructive feedback. My point is that posting “Looks great!” on something which isn’t great really doesn’t help anyone.
I think you can give honest feedback without being a dick.
Milo Burgh says:
I agree, but I think that sometimes the “It´s great!!” can be only for the global effect, the particular item not being so great. As I said, if I don´t like something, I don´t reply.
BDub says:
I disagree with your central thesis – “even though most people actually do want your advice”. Most people don’t want your advice. Some do, most don’t. Most people want attention and preferable praise. The reason being “nice” is a default tactic, is that mini culture is still somewhat empathetic, and given that you have no context about the poster, and that its all very subjective anyways, its a safer route to take. What would the alternative look like? Yikes! I’ll take empty platitudes instead. That said, I think that if you personally want feedback/critisim you should explicitly ask for it. Anyone that doesn’t explicitly ask for it, I assume just want praise and/or attention.
Andy says:
I prefer to assume that most people are a little more mature than that. Some people just want their ego stroked, I disagree that they’re the majority and don’t think pandering to people’s insecurities should be our default setting. Let’s assume we’re among adults and discuss things reasonably. You can be honest and helpful without being mean.
I think the quick poll from Twitter I included above supports the idea that people wanting honest comments outnumber those who just want praise. Admittedly 40% of people did just want praise, but I wouldn’t want to speculate on their motivations for that.