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We’re playing this one too. It’s a good campaign. The briefing in the magazine doesn’t actually say the British have to win every battle, just that they have to win on every table. So they can come back for a second shot if they lose a game, using their second platoon if necessary.
I think it would be very difficult for them to win without using this option.
You’re right about the scenario just saying they have to take all four tables, I’d missed that. I wouldn’t give the Brits too many extra cracks at it though, they are against the clock after all.
We’ve got up to game three. The first platoon of British walked all over the Germas whilst taking very few causalties on tables one and two. They won scenario two (the Probe) taking no casualties at all and inflicting none on the German core force. They captured a German jump-off point after getting two consecutive moves right at the start of the game, then ran up the road under the cover of a mortar barrage.
The Germans took the counter-attack option on table three and attacked with 30 support points (they rolled a double six for supports). That didn’t go at all well for the British who have now brought up their second platoon for another go at table three.
30 points!? Wow. I thought the max for that scenario would be 28 though? 10 for force rating and 6+2d6 for the scenario? It’s not clear if that 2d6 for the wild card is on top of what they’d get normally, but I assumed it wasn’t, or else they’d be able to bring a whole division on.
We’re playing the probe mission this Wednesday, hopefully the Brits won’t romp through me so easily!
The text says the Germans “may select up to List 12” for games three and four, the counter attack option “allows him to add 6+2D6 points for that game only”.
If the 6 +2D6 wasn’t additional the Germans would be counter-attacking with an average of 13 points compared to the 12 they’d get for defending. And there would be a chance of just over 20% that they’d actually get fewer supports.
Are you using CoC Derek? Because those listed support levels are only if you’re using a different rule set. The text says that if you’re using CoC you roll for support as normal. We nearly made the exact same mistake.
Great review. Did not realise you had looked at M&T we have been playing it for 2 years now and love it – its one of my favourite rule sets to play.
Cheers
TT
Hi Emilio,
AFAIK there was no assistant driver like you’d have in a 251. Each squad could provide ten men to fight on foot. The drivers would stay with the vehicles and if they weren’t required they would take them to the rear, camouflage them and provide security.
I have been hesitating to finish some British vehicles, because I just haven’t done recent research on markings… Can you post the link(s) that you use for this information?
The “Armor Color Gallery” books are great though. They’ve got lots of detail about markings and camo, and heaps of photos that show what the vehicles actually looked like in service, which also helps with stuff like stowage and all the little tweaks that crews would make to their vehicles. I built my Bren gun carriers differently from the instructions in the kit based on photos from one of those books. Highly recommended.
This is great! Thanks for sharing. I ran a “Tanksgiving Day” game using modified CoC rules last month too. You can find my rules addendum and writeup on my blog. I really like some of the features in yours, especially the card activation and the encouragement to run tanks off the opposing player’s baseline. I think I may heavily borrow from your rules next November…
Nice paint work on the vehicles, Have downloaded the rules, thanks for sharing , the brit looks a bit too cool in the back of the Bren carrier near the Panther, I think I would be shivering in my boots. Nice clear photos.
That has turned out great! Glad it did the trick.
Really good idea on insulating the sieve, can’t believe we didn’t think about it (or maybe we were having too much fun shocking each other…)!
Andy,
You’ve achieved a lot there, well done!
Best of luck for your 2016 projects. I’ll look forward to seeing it all the blog.
Happy New Year!
Cheers
Matt
Excellent writeup. I too are looking forward to this game.
I have for a long time been interested in a spacegame but have never found one that seemed any good. I think you captrue my thoughts exactly here.
With to many space games looking to close to an Age of sail as you said. Then why not just play an Age of sail game… Besides a Ship of the line is soo mutch more beutifull then all other spaceships out their. Then came Dropship commander… A new fresh take on the Space game janra and with excellent looking miniatures. An now even in plastic that enable them to make for some really interesting designs and slender looking miniatures.
This summer/autum will be great and many a spaceships will be assembled.
A couple of comments/questions for the early list:
– The 2″ mortars variously have 2/3/4 crew depending on the source. Is this deliberate?
– Is there a reason the list uses the Boys ATR? The Official History of New Zealand in the Second World War 1939–1945, Italy Volume I: The Sangro to Cassino, pgs 33 & 34 would indicate that the changeover to the PIAT occurred at the same time as the Staghound provision.
– What weapon choices does the Recce section in Universal Carriers have?
2″ mortars in most CoC lists come with a 2-man crew, but my own reading suggests that where present the OC’s batman was expected to join the 2″ crew as a third man. I don’t think it makes a big difference either way. I’ve not read anything about 4-man crews myself.
Excellent spot on the issue date for the PIAT, I’ll amend the list right away.
Universal Carriers can carry a Bren, 2″ mortar or a PIAT as per the recce section in the main rulebook. I’ve also seen some still in use quite late mounting Boys rifles. It seems 2nd NZ had a bit of a habit of bodging just about any surplus weaponry they could find into their carriers, hence the proliferation of 30 cal and even 50 cal guns in pics.
I see I’ve not explained the 2″ Mortar crew question very well. The Infantry Platoon has 3 crew, the Motor Platoon has 2 crew & the support list has 4 crew. From the earlier answer, am I right in assuming the 4 crew in the support list is an error?
& a followup question for the early list:
– Did the Infantry Platoon really have no assigned AT weapon?
Awesome overview of the Italian campaign by the way, it’s fired up my interest! My wallet isn’t so enthusiastic though…
Scale of issue for the PIAT is a bit hazy. If you wanted to include it at the platoon level and pull a couple of men out from rifle sections to man it I don’t think it’s going to be a problem for game balance. I’ve taken the view that it wasn’t a weapon routinely used and that platoon commanders can deliberately include one if they feel the need (ie: get it off the support list with a dedicated crew).
I reckon the most wallet-friendly way into Italy is to start with the later half of the campaign and used miniatures wearing normal temperate uniforms, that way it’s just a matter of sorting a bit of terrain. Having said that, the Perry plastics are a good cheap (£20) way of doing Brits in shorts for Sicily.
Yep, I’m inclined to do just that. I do like the Perry plastics, but would have to sort support weapons (ie, the PIAT) for those in any case, so may as well just start with later.
Any suggestions on where to source 28mm Staghounds? All I’ve really found are Bronco (1/48) and the RTFM/diewaffenkammer (28mm) ones.
Looks like Blitzkrieg do some as well, but they’ve only got 3D renders on their site and I’ve never bought anything from them. I can’t vouch for the quality.
Great list with an interesting theme. I may actually have enough 20mm soviets to pull this off – thanks! I have one minor concern about the 81mm direct fire support. The mortar should have a minimum range. Years ago I trained on the L 16 and our minimum range was 100 yards. No firing it from the horizontal braced against a tree like the 2″. 😉
Minimum range is listed as 24″ when you look in the table at the bottom of the document. I’ll make that a bit more explicit in the next version, which should be out very soon with some of the excellent suggestions I’ve had so far!
Yep, same stuff Neal. All you need to do is find something the right thickness to wind it around. The coils should be about waist height on whatever scale miniatures you’re using.
Nice work Andy, especially like the Hedgehogs, great trick for the rust on the barbed wire, this page will be a great reference when I get around to the stage of making some of my own, thanks for sharing info.
I, for one, appreciate you not sugar-coating it. 🙂
A review should be bad, if the game doesn’t give the reviewer what he’s looking for out of the game. Having to do this much house-ruling and people already talking about taking this piece and that piece have convinced me these rules are not worth it.
Honestly I find them a bit infuriating. With the right tweaks there could be a really good game in there, but out of the box I think they’re a bit broken. Not irreparably though…
Hi Tyler!I’m a fan of the Artizan fiugres too. I have a few Crusader fiugres in the mix of stuff I have partly becasue of availability at the time or their pack contents more suited my needs, but as you say they’re pretty damn chunky or as I like to say They look a little too well fed compared to the pictures I’ve seen of half-starved young men that actually fought Foundry does (or did..?) make paras (and commandos..) which are nice and could be useful as members of the Canadian Parachute Battalion. You might also look at West Wind Productions’ Berlin or Bust line. Their weapons and equipment are considerably smaller than the Artizan stuff if you’re planning to mix and match and fussy about that sort of thing Also Battle Honors makes a pretty extensive line of 25/28mm WW2 fiugres. I think I have a section of them and they too are a touch on the smaller side. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!cheers,tim
Well that was a terrific write up. I am shocked the British did what they did with so few casualties. I suppose they really got the jump with the free moves and the double phases while the Germans had late deployment. Very done, I am looking forward to your next write up. John
Yes I’ll second that ,a excellent write up, love your detail, especially the interactive pictures showing deployment and movement of the troops, nice reproduction of map on the gaming table and a good game,thanks Andy.
[…] with M&T here is an excellent concise summation of the game with more useful reviews here and here. An nice quick look at various aspects of play are given in this short series of videos that show […]
Nice work Andy on the New Zealand troops and yes I have to agree with you on the warlord plastic late war Brits, it took a couple of weeks to do what you said, work out and put all those pieces together, cutting off and rearranging arms, hands, legs even chopping bodies in half to get a more natural pose. I painstakingly put a Platoon together along with the support troops. The newer plastics released by warlord have better poses and are easier to assemble, I purchased a box of recently released German grenadiers and the figure have improved.
cheers.
Andy,
They look superb! Your experiments with AP are going really well. My favourite is the guy crouching and ramming the musket – he seems to have a proper maniacal stare!
You’re right about figuring out how to blend it with your own style. Takes a bit of ‘twiddling’ but worth it. I did my Saxon army using the same technique. The first few batches of figures were a bit hit and miss but once you get used to it they start to roll off the production line.
Pooling suggestion – give the figures about 30 mins and then check for any unsightly puddles and wick ’em away with a bit of tissue.
I’ve often been tempted by this theatre (although the European aspect of the SYW is a bit boring), but so far I have managed to resist! But you’re not helping! ;o)
Cheers
Matt
PS – The last lot of Perry metals I had were shocking!! Think they’re done by the same bods as Great War Miniatures.
Cheers Matt. I think the Quickshade works a lot better with some things than others. Flesh works well, flat areas of clothing not so much. Definitely agree about pooling though, that’s also why I’ve taken to brush it on instead of dipping, you get better control of how much goes on.
Nice work Andy, I have been interesting in this type of wargaming, even since I watched ‘last of the Mohicans’ at the movies but I am trying to concentrate on finishing one project at a time.
cheers
I find having a couple on the go actually helps with motivation John. If I get sick of painting one thing it’s good to switch to something completely different for a bit.
I’ve got some French line infantry to finish ( these guys https://twitter.com/TinyHordes/status/687210224684560385), but one of the nice things about Muskets and Tomahawks is you can play with only about 20 miniatures.
Nice work on the French guys.
I too have a couple on the go, at the moment I am switching between painting infantry and vehicles, once I finish my British army for CofC , I will move onto terrain but I have ordered the rule book tor Muskets and Tomahawks, so that’s a start.
Great report – especially the maps! What did you use to create those? This sounds like a very tough battle for the Brits – not only tough but potentially un-fun? I’m trying to think of how they could handle the situation differently. It doesn’t seem like there’s much room to maneuver for either side in this scenario.
It certainly can be a tough battle for the Brits, exactly how tough will depend a lot on how they role for the effects of their drop. I don’t think they can expect to win, their objective is to try and give the Germans a bloody nose and withdraw in good order. That’s challenging enough to be fun IMO.
Thanks for the link! Also, I read the rest of your reports and I see what you mean — this is the kind of battle that makes much more sense in context of the campaign. I’ve wish-listed this campaign based on your play-throughs. You should get a commission. 🙂
The nicely painted Germans are Phil’s work. My Brits don’t come anywhere near his standards I’m afraid. The terrain is a mix of his, mine and the club’s stuff.
Thanks Andy. Crumbs, that sounds like a lot of work but I think I might give it go when I get around to my ‘proper’ tanks :o) Got a Sherman, Cromwell and a Tiger (!?) saved for a rainy day. Certainly very effective.
Cheers
Matt
Great battle report, though I have one question. From what I recall, the winners of a scenario recover casualties equal to the difference in force morale between them and the loser, but your butcher’s bill seems not to include this effect, is that a personal choice or something from this campaign handbook?
I don’t have the actual casualties recorded in the game to hand any more, but we do apply that rule. Although looking back at this report it suggests I took 9 casualties in the battle, which seems like a lot. Hmm. If I did forget it won’t affect things too much, I would have only been one man up in the next game.
Ah, I see. I’ve always read that rule as only applying to casualties from the core platoon and not applied it to support losses. That might explain why the attackers have tended to romp through my campaigns with ease.
Hi, Nice report. I found the Sherman not useful in my last Closing the Gap Campaign. I knew before the game started that at best the Germans would have a Panzerschreck to take on armour. They did get off a couple of shots but I had the hull obscured which made it a bit of a challenge, fortunately for the Germans isolated the Panzerschreck without supports so I was able to take it out with a couple of HMG blasts.
Despite this though the 6 HE from the Sherman did little to soften up the German panzergrenadiers in a stone building.
I have yet to play a tank on tank battle in this campaign, so it was interesting to read about yours. Great report.
Inclined to agree, but I did have two of them! I did think long and hard about whether to take the VC as it’s a bit useless once the enemy armour is dealt with. If they all survived the tank battle three 75mm guns would have made a definite impression on the buildings, but in the end I figured I had to actually win the tank battle in order to get any rounds in against the farm.
Part of my thinking was to kill the free Panzer IV that the Germans get and allow me to use the AVRE more freely in the rest of the campaign.
Fun report! I’ve played many games of the old PC game Combat Mission where one German tank could do in an entire American tank platoon. This reminded me fondly of those battles. Enjoying the campaign – I’ve about got my first CoC units completed and ready for my first game – looking forward to it!
I love reading these AAR’s. Another great game of Chain of Command. I’m just about to fight this scenario. I’m losing confidence now after reading this……..Doh!!
Excellent idea and work Andy, I saw your early work on your dug in German Infantry a while back and thought it was a great idea, portraying dug in troops like you have looks more realistic on the gaming table. I hope you don’t mind I’ll will have to pinch your idea and make some up for my Brits, thanks for the inspiration and sharing info.
cheers.
Andy,
Great work with those dug-in British. I think the figures are just fine, as I look at them they’re posed such that they’re on the look-out and have just spotted the first enemy. Might have to pick up a sprue or two from Warlord. For dug-in troops I currently have to use regular figures stood behind some hefty sandbag resin pieces – does the trick but just doesn’t quite look ‘right’ if you see what I mean.
Cheers
Matt
I posted them on the SOTCW forum and someone said similar about the “wall of sandbags” approach. He said he thought it made them look like black powder-era troops behind gabions, which is a fair point.
Warlord occasionally do their half-price sprue sale, although the last one was only a couple of months ago I think.
Wow – I JUST started using trello for both painting and developing a set of rules that I’ve been working on. I like the idea of a priority board and I’m going to start tracking miniature from acquisition (how many of us have figured we’ve forgotten about!) to final finish. Another tip – make it a public board to be held accountable!
I don’t buy anything I don’t need and generally finish one project before starting another, my lead mountain is around 30 unwanted figures. I do however need to stop new projects.
I don’t buy anything I don’t need either, George. I just need lots of things! Currently collecting for WW2, dark ages, FIW and feudal Japan, and some fool just started a Kickstarter with lots of nice pirates!
I agree Andy, I don t use a computer program but I use a note book and record what I need to do for the following day,ideas for modelling /set tasks needed to be completed the following day etc.
As you mentioned slugging it out on one painting project can be tough mentally but working on different small projects is more productive.
I also set one theater of war I what to complete before moving onto another but in the meantime I am recording in my note book ideas for models,terrain , models needed to purchase etc for another theater of war so I will be ready.
cheers.
To be honest you could do pretty much everything Trello does with a notice board and some drawing pins.
But yes, you’ve grasped the point I was hoping to get across that it’s not necessarily about the tools, it’s about figuring out what kind of motivational poke your own brain responds to.
That looks like exactly the sort of thing I need! Anything to keep the butterfly on track. However, is there a danger of spending all your time “planning” rather than actually doing? ;o)
So I’ve played around with these a bit now and I’ve noticed a number of small issues:
– The Stuart Recce is support List 3 on the late version , List 4 on the early version.
– The late version Motor Rifle squad is identical in composition to the early infantry squad (List 4) but is on List 3.
– The 50cal Universal carrier has HE listed as HMG in the late list, 10 in the early list. I’m assuming the 50cal is intended to be top mounted?
– Boys AT Rifle entry in the early armory can be removed. PIAT can be added to both.
– Staghound Mk II comes out as 3+3+6+1(wheeled)+1(MG) = 14. Staghound Mk I is 3+5+4(MG overides the HE)+1(wheeled)+2(Hull & Coax MG) = 15. Unless the Mk 1 has had a theme discount applied, they should both be List 5.
Opinion follows! Feel free to ignore as you see fit.
Depending on the reinforcement pattern of the NZ forces (trickle feed or complete formations?) I’d suggest that Regular should be an option on the lists, particularly the early list. Alternatively, leave it in to allow for those not using the Experienced Regulars (Veteran?) rules.
I’m not sure that the pintle AA mounts on the Sherman & Firefly are justified. Written & pictorial evidence appears to indicate that the majority of Commonwealth Shermans in Italy had them removed/not fitted.
Agree with 99% of what you’ve put:
– Stuart recce now on List 4 in both versions
– Late Motor Platoon squad goes up to List 4, suspect this was a copy-paste error
– 50cal on Bren is a scrounged gun welded to the carrier so yes will be top-mounted. Not dismountable as no tripod was available. I’ve changed both lists to say “HMG” instead of HE 10, just to make it a bit clearer.
– Boys AT rifle was already gone as of ver5 of the list, PIAT was in use by the time of their first action in Italy, although some Boys were still knocking about I don’t believe they saw much use and I can’t imagine wargamers having any reason to want one.
– Both Staghounds now List 5, thanks.
Re: reinforcements. It was trickle-feed, although given the requirement to ship them all the way across the world they arrived in pretty big batches. Experienced men were sent on furlough on several occasions, and rarely returned to their original unit, while casualties obviously created vacancies too. These were filled when a batch of replacements arrived from NZ. At times that meant that the battalions entered combat with a lot of green men, but they were generally less than 1/3 of the total number, with “old hands” making up the majority at all levels, right down to individual sections. That’s why I went for Experienced Regulars instead of Elites. Eighth Army in general were pretty tough and their years of experience in the desert should be reflected IMO.
As for the AA pintle mounts, you’re probably right about that. I certainly haven’t modelled any on my Kiwi tanks.
Sorry, should have been more specific again. The Arsenal Table has a guns listing down the bottom. The late list is missing the PIAT, the early list has the Boys and is missing the PIAT as well. Pedantic, but helps to have all the references in one place!
As the 50cal UC is a non-standard vehicle, it’d probably be worth mentioning the intention for the top-mount for the 50cal in the notes/list description.
With trickle feed for the reinforcements, I can see why you’ve chosen Experienced Regular for the majority of the time. I’m slightly unconvinced for the beginning of the time period though – somewhere between 1/2 &1/3 of the division was green (6000 on furlough, only ~1100 of those returned, so 4900 green in a division of 13k-18k : http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/war/second-world-war-at-home/hello-and-goodbye).
Am I right in assuming the split on early/late for the Motor Rifle platoon is just for convenience and that they should be using the early support list prior to Sept 44? Pedantic again 😉
You’re right, I didn’t bother to list the PIAT in with the guns and such. I probably should put that in the next version for completeness.
I’m not sure where people would think you could mount a 50cal M2 gun apart from on top of a carrier! But it might be worth hunting down a photo for future versions.
You’re talking about Orsogna re the reinforcements? The battalions that did most of the fighting were the 21st and 23rd. 23rd sent home 157 men and received 220 replacements who hadn’t yet seen action (27% of their strength). The high calibre of these new men is noted in the battalion’s war diary though, probably due to the fact training roles back home were now held by experienced combat veterans. Certainly the performance of 21st and 23rd against some tough troops at Orsogna showed they were still capable of going toe-to-toe with elite troops like fallschirmjager and defeating them. given that some of the Pint Sized campaigns rate units like 49th West Riding as regular on their first day of combat I’m willing to cut the hard nuts of Eighth army some slack!
For 22 Bn in the period June-Sept 44 I’d probably use the early lists, yes. The only real action of note that would affect would be La Romola.
Sure, but some of the pics of 50cals on UC have it mounted over the gunners position. Some pics also show just UCs with a single 30cal mounted there – and the argument would run that we’re treating those as the hull MG, so why not hull mounted for the 50cal as well? (In a way, the 10 HE entry was actually clearer what the intent was.) There’s also pics with a Vickers actually mounted in the gun port, so it’s not like there’s a lack of space!
I think this one boils down to CoC rules – I doubt there was any noticeable difference to the troops using it whether it was mounted in the gun port, above the port or further back on the carrier.
I hadn’t looked into specifics of where the reinforcements had gone – I’ll bow out of the argument on that one, pending more research. Your case is sound given the evidence so far! Having said that, I’ll run the lists through the CoCulator for personal use as Regulars – purely because I can’t convince some of my opponents to try the intermediate Experienced grading.
Where a 30cal has been welded onto a carrier I wouldn’t treat it as a hull MG. WYSIWG applies here, I think. If your model has the gun on a pintle mount, then it’s a pintle gun, if it’s mounted in the hull (as some stuff was, even ATRs) then it’s a hull gun. Fire arc changes, but not the number of dice.
Fair enough about regulars if your opponents aren’t convinced.
There’s evidence of the M10 Achilles being used in Italy: there’s pictures of British ones as early as October 44, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/17pdr_SP_Achilles#/media/File:Armoured_Ramp_Carrier_03.jpg for an example.
There’s a picture of a NZ Achilles in ‘Camouflage and Markings of the 2nd New Zealand Division – Part 2: Italy’ (Plowman, 2007) on page 42. No clear information on when they were provided that I’ve been able to find though, and the NZ picture is late enough that it potentially never saw combat.
On the M10 Wolverines – http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz//tm/scholarly/tei-WH2Arti-c19-1.html has them as delivered in June 44 and first used July 44. That puts them in scope for the support list for the Early list. Currently there’s no way to represent the ArmCav force in San Casciano, with the addition of M10s to the early list there’d no longer be a problem.
That photo is in Trieste Dan, and given that 7th AT had been taken out of front-line fighting and were mostly doing indirect fire in the late stages I think your hunch that the M10 Fireflies never saw combat is probably right.
The introduction date for the M10 does overlap the very end of the early list slightly. Feel free to use them in actions Jul-Aug 44 if you want. Armcav could be quite an interesting force to game with actually, it was like a mini armoured task force within an infantry division, something probably only 2NZ as a mixed division could do.
Found the missing information on the date of provision of the M10 Achilles – changing search terms to M10C made it much easier. http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz//tm/scholarly/tei-WH2Arti-c21-5.html#n684
“In mid-January an M10c arrived in 32 Battery—an M10 with a 17-pounder gun, far more powerful than the 3-inch of the normal M10. It was taken out on the 18th for a practice shoot with HE ammunition.”
That said, there’s still no evidence that it saw combat other than in indirect fire mode, nor that there was ever more than this single example. Interesting to note that the 17lb HE ammunition was available and apparently this wasn’t unusual enough to warrant comment. Might be enough to justify HE on the Sherman Fireflies as well?
Yeah, that’s the problem with a lot of the terms wargamers use like “Achilles” and “Sherman Firefly”. The M10Cs weren’t called Achilles during the war, if they were called anything other than M10s it was often actually “Firefly”. You can hear the veterans calling them that in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B-sfUFWG8Y. The name Firefly wasn’t really used for the Sherman VC mounting the 17pdr as far as I can tell.
Cheers John. Ram and Priest Kanagaroos definitely saw use in NW Europe, not sure about the Shermans. The Stuart Jalopies saw occasional use as troop carriers, too.
Great report! I’ve been wondering about these rules. Creating realistic movement for programmed opponents is tricky at best and I wondered how well this rule set handled it. Great terrain too!
The advice in the rule book is pretty common sense. If the result you roll doesn’t make sense then it says to change it the minimum amount to come up with a sensible result. There’s a nice simple system where the movement of the guards gets less random as the attacker makes more noise.
The only real change I made was to the equipment each man carried. Drop the body armour and switch the assault rifles to bolt action ones. The points values for everything are in the back so it’s easily done.
Thanks for the great AAR Andy , thoroughly enjoyed reading it, those mortars can be a blessing or a curse , you where on the blessed side, last weekend I was on the cursed side with my opponent continually rolling COC dice to keep the mortars going.
cheers
I’ve had mortars be a real damp squib, too.
If you don’t roll more 5’s than the other guy then the barrage ends really fast and your 4 support points are wasted. If you roll more 5’s then it can last all game. I’m still not totally sold on the way they work.
Great stuff, nearly ready to try my own mini-campaign, I have Martlett, Scottish Corridor and the Para one, but I have to dream one up for the Ostfront.
Fascinating – -I’m currently reading _With the Jocks_ which is the wartime diary of a British officer. I had noticed the author uses the terms 17pdr Sherman and I think he used “TDs” as well.
And that’s exactly where I’m coming from with this. When you read period sources you very quickly realise that the names in common use today are a bit weird. How did we ever end up using them?
Thanks for saying “fascinating” instead of “shut up you pedant”, btw 😉
Andy, you’re definitely not a pedant, you put a very practical spin on things. I certainly learned some things here. I knew “firefly” was a misnomer but wasn’t sure about the correct designation? Thanks for all the useful information. 🙂
Matt
Yippee, I got them all right, albeit two were educated guesses. Very interesting, let’s see who picks me up when I keep referring to my Achilles as the M10 or TD, any bets how long?
Cheers John. The way I structure my reports is loosely based on how the actual military conduct briefings and AARs. There’s always something to take away from having a little post-match think about the game.
I have spent the past few years researching this battle. My Uncle Bob was the gunner in the DD Sherman who was killed during the fire at the Rauray Farm Gates. Trooper 14570907 Robert Alinson SMITH Nottinghamshire Yeomanry Royal Armoured Corps. He is buried together with his tank commander Sgt GREEN in Fontenay Le Pesnel cemetery nearby. Tjhis encounter is included in the book By Tank Into Normandy by the legendary Stuart HILLS who was also a tank commander involved in Operation Martlet.
Kindest regards. Bob SMITH
Please feel free to get in touch.
Thanks for the terrain tips Andy, I am starting to venture into terrain making, In My recent game of COC, my opponent used the Haystacks you mentioned as his JOPs.
cheers
They both look good, but I agree the toweling looks better. So what kind of towel was it — just cotton? Bath towel or kitchen towel? I’ve seen this method a lot but I’ve never seen someone show the towels beforehand so I’ve always been curious. RE the teddy bear fur, I think you’d get good results with that especially once you’ve combed it through with PVA. It makes a bit of a mess as the fur comes off quite easily at first, but by the end you have a nice effect that’s nearly bullet-proof (caveat – I made palm tree leaves, not thatched roofs, but I assume the effect is the same)
Excellent report. What happened to the AVRE then, not the right command dice? That just doesn’t make sense to me, but perhaps I am wrong and it was something else?
I sent the Sherman ahead through the orchards to draw out any nasty surprises, then all my command dice got sucked into managing the infantry fight at the farm. It would have taken too long to deploy the AVRE and bring it up to the point where it was useful (at least 3-4 phases).
Like I said, I should have sat tight with the infantry and brought up more support (AVRE and the third section) before attacking. I think part of the problem is the pressure to get a result in during a club night game (about 3 hours) so there’s no much time for messing about.
Fantastic report. An extremely tough time for the British. Shows how close to history you can sail when using Chain of Command rules, i love em. Many thanks for posting these great bat reps.
I wish I’d read this before painting my Sharp Practice MDF tokens. A white gel pen would have been loads easier for that as well. I love the tax collector and tax markers – might be stealing that idea. 🙂
Is there any reason why they lost “Aggresive” ? In my point of view and in tradition of Kurt Mayer Aufklarung Abteilungs was the most aggresive. With lost of Aggresive and Panzerschreck are they still only -1 against Elite PG?
Also I am missing SdKfz 250/10 which were delivered to platoon leaders of 250/1. I am still missing 250/9 coaxial MG as it has same turret as 222.
I believe even 251/1 has to be available along with other 251 versions for schwere kompanies
No, just an oversight. If you were playing them as elites you can take “aggressive” if you want, it doesn’t have a big effect on the game.
As for vehicles, you should include anything that real life units had available. For the 250/10 you could just use the same stats for the 251/10.
You’re right about the coax being missing on the 250/9, I’ve submitted that to be fixed.
I bought this way back in the early 2000’s for use as an autocannon in my Steel Legion 40k force.
As you say it’s not bad, but it’s way overscale. I think it’s actually 1/48 scale, but I don’t have an 1/48 gun to compare with. Bear in mind that the model was before 1/56 became a popular choice for 28mm figures. I believe all their guns and vehicles are actually 1/48.
I also have their Hanomag which is a close to impossible to assemble due to the bad fit of the parts. That was also bought in the early 2000, if they haven’t remade the moulds I would steer well clear of that one.
One thing… I do own an airbrush, but for the last 1-2 years I’ve been doing the sort of “stipple” effect you talk about. It’s much faster and it really looks more like what a Private would be doing in the field… 🙂
Heh, that’s what I tell people about German late war camo: there is literally no way to get it wrong. Whatever go awful thing you slap on it, you can find a real vehicle that looked like that. Some of them were completely random.
Looks like they’ve completely pulled the vehicle range, but the guns are still on offer.
From the sound of it they used to have a really good sculptor for their miniatures, hence why so many people recommend them. Some of the more recent sculpts and all the vehicles and guns are well dodgy, though.
Thanks for the detailed review Andy. Think I might just stick with the Warlord model, as and when I get around to it!! Good result with the painting and modelling though! :o)
The Warlord one looks good I reckon. Phil has one and you can see it in some of our recent battle reports on here. The Artizan one also looks really nice, too.
Nice work Andy, thanks for the extra info for Chain of Command Support , its good to know the advantages and disadvantages of selecting one, I have always wondered in what List a Bren with Vickers MG would fit in .
cheers John
… and now you know! I’ll be playtesting it in a campaign soon. Given the very exposed firing position I was thinking of letting enemy at close range target the crew directly.
Tense and exciting — even though this is the 3rd time over the same terrain! It would have been nice to see the wrecked vehicles. If the Brits do manage to finally break the Germans next battle, what are their odds looking like for the campaign? It seems from the reports that they’ve truly stalled and that never bodes well.
As commander of the Germans, I suspect that if the British get past the farm they’ll have a good chance of winning the campaign. German resources are slim and will only get worse, while the British have a lot of support. However, we will continue to drive the tommies into the sea !! Not one step backwards 😄😄
The Brits could salvage a narrow victory, but I’d have to win the next three games on the trot. If the Germans win any of them and have enough smash left in them to launch a counter-attack they’ll win the campaign as I’ll be left well short of Rauray by Turn 11. So it’s (literally) and uphill battle all the way up the Rauray Spur for the Polar Bears.
Looks like the might of the British Army has been stopped cold by a bunch of spotty schoolboys.
GREAT review – I just bought these rules and I must say you’ve really provided here not just a review but a primer on using the rules. I had missed the bit about how suppression works, for instance. Also — “arresting perps in Mega-City One” — ooooooh, that’s a nice idea!
The suppression rule is one of my favourite bits of Black Ops. It’s really simple and works brilliantly.
Not sure how stealthy Judge Dredd would be though… not really his style? They do mention you can play it as a straight up wargame without the stealth phase, but I’ve never actually tried.
I’ve got some proper commando miniatures to paint up for WW2 raids, and I bought a pile of mercenary and secret agent types for moderns. Just need to slap some paint on them…
I have just gotten a pack of Warlord Partizans to mix in with other Soviets to give some flavor to a regular/irregular partizan unit, but I was looking at getting some more of these next time the BTD sale hits.
I agree that the website pictures are not appealing and had actually stopped me from getting some of these before.
Haha, it’s not Powerpoint. I use Battle Chronicler and take a snapshot of the state of the table at the end of each turn. Then when you display that series of images as a slideshow on the site it looks animated. So I cheat, basically.
One small comment. when the German player ended the turn to remove the second Brit JOP, should the bunker have then collapsed, as it was unstable at that point? That would have potentially wounded/killed a few more Jerrys
Personally, I’ve never been able to take advantage of a medic, and only Germans tend to benefit from Adjutant. As British, I tend to take a second PIAT or 2 inch mortar. It sounds from your action like another PIAT would have been useful to defend the JOPs. So easy with hindsight, I admit
The adjutant was definitely useful. I did have both my SLs on table. A Sherman and a PIAT should have been able to tackle a single PZIV between them, I was just unlucky. I hit the panzer about a dozen times and did a fair bit of damage to it, but never got a kill result or enough shock.
Andy, I’m a big fan/follower of you campaigns for CoC, but here’s my first post response.
Having played the Brits a few times and have gone up against them a lot as the German player, here are a few things which may help you in this scenario or other follow-on scenarios in your campaign; Use the crap out of that 2″ mortar to drop smoke everywhere, to not only protect you from fire but also to blind the Germans. It would appear on your diagrams the Germans were all concentrated – drop that s**t right in front of them. Next you have to set some sort of diversion, say from the far off JOP in the field. Last utilize your Piat and Demo teams into tank-hunters. These guys should be concentrating on that Panzer IV. I believe with the joint use of smoke and these specialized teams, you would either knock out the tank or make it think twice rolling around in the open. Finally if you’re able, get a flame thrower; very deadly for personnel. but also for tanks too.
Yes, the 2″ mortar is awesome. I did drop some smoke on the house, but the game was decided before the assault on the farm compound took place. The Germans in the farm actually never fired a shot all game. No flamethrower available to the Brits in this campaign, I’m afraid!
Greg, your comments are interesting, but Andy would need a lot of support points to take all of that stuff and he would need a lot of very good dice rolling to be able to use it all. I agree that firing smoke in front of the farm house would have restricted me, but to do that is to use up activations that you suggest should be used elsewhere. All I’ve got to do as the Germans is wait for Andy to come through the smoke and blast him at short range in the open. The first time we played this scenario, Andy used a lot of smoke, got into the farm yard and then I ended the turn, clearing the smoke and leaving his troops totally exposed.
Andy’s idea for this game was spot on, but to hit my Panzer IV 8 times and not destroy it is extremely unlucky and I was able to make good use of Andy’s misfortune. “C’est le Guerre !!”
Got ya! Didn’t see the smoke in the pics. But bad dice can make for a long day, especially when you the tank eight times. I must say, I know its easy to do the Monday Quarterback stuff, but couldn’t help commenting on a game w/Brits as the folks here just dominate with that dame 2″ mortar and the luck shots with the Piat…trust me I’ve been on the receiving end several times, and once giving a long, but lucky two Piat shots on two tanks. As always I really enjoy your AARs and look forward to Andy beating this map.
Great report and great game. It’s easy to say in retrospect that perhaps you should have concentrated on the farm, but I think I’d have done the same thing you did. Sounds more like a bit of bad luck – this could easily have gone the other way. The Panzer crew is well deserving of that medal! Your reports are so well written — I’ve had to pack up my toys in preparation for a move so it’s great to be able to read your exploits. It’s almost like being at the table!
Love your AAR Andy, one word of advice “breath test your officers before going onto battle” 🙂
too bad for the PIAT team, would have been interesting if they did rearm.
looking forward to your next one.
cheers John
Thanks John. It’s been quite amusing watching the lieutenant’s mood lurch around due to his drinking. He’s AWOL for the next game, but should return for the final smash up of the campaign. And he’s sobered up, too!
It’s worth noting that we offer a 20% discount for new customers, which help eases the cost. Your readers can register at doxzoo.com/registration to grab their discount code.
We hope to print more of your wargame bits and bobs soon!
The field defences are great; I have copied them without reservation but I have a question on the Czech Hedgehogs. What paint do you use to prime the plastic angle ? I used Humbrol Acrylic Matt Black and it does not seem to adhere to the plastic. I have thought about roughing them up with a file or sandpaper but it will be rather fiddly work.
Any suggestions or advice will gratefully received
Oooh, it was a while ago Ian and I don’t remember. Probably just matt black spray paint. If I was doing it properly I probably would have used a spray plastic primer (automotive ones are fine).
Weapons which reduce cover such as HMGs and autocannons pay full price.
“H.E. effect is actually better phrased as “anti-infantry effect”, so a vehicle with an HMG is rated as 6, as it fires 6D6. A vehicle with an MMG or LMG, which do not reduce cover, is rated as 4, i.e. two thirds of an HMG”
Nice modelling Andy, thanks for the review and the CoC stats . Yes, like the Rubicon models they tend to be more solid compared to the Italeri kits, the Recce version of the Stuart looks great, tempted to make one.
cheers John
Honestly I play Bolt Action, and had not heard much or anything about chain of command, I have no reason to trash on it, but I will pick up a copy, and give it a whirl, who knows? I may have another world war 2 game to play and run.
CoC is great, but where it really shines is as a campaign system. If you want to give it a crack I’d highly recommend also picking up the supplement “At the Sharp End” and having a rummage through the Pint Sized Campaigns, which give you a series of about 6-12 linked games for about £3.
I’m a great fan of lopsided scenarios as they make players really think. I’ve been gaming US naval operations against Iran in the 1980s and games are tense but not even slightly balanced. The US player is constrained by Rules of Engagement and with overwhelming force their pride is severely dented by ANY damage. The Iranian player gets to hide F4s in commercial air corridors or missile boats amongst the merchant traffic and can decide when and where to attack – if they aren’t in a good position they can pull back and try again elsewhere. Of course the patience of the US player can run out and they may fire first (a victory for Iran anyway) but figuring out how far to push it adds to the tension and excitement.
That sounds like exactly the kind of thing I’m getting at Nick. If you introduce things like ROE and different victory conditions you can have a game that’s really asymmetric but still fun.
Hello Andy, your temple guards look awesome. I’m beginning the game and bought an old lizardmen stock on Ebay. I wonder if the actual plastic halberds could fit well on old temple guards from 96. Thanks in advance for your anwer, and keep up the good work !
Mikhail
Hey Andy ! Si I think I’m going to buy some bitz for my almost vintage temple guards. The former owner put weapons from actual saurus warriors and I was not really convinced by this look. They barely looked threatening ! I am playing age of sigmar. I Always thought Warhammer was not for me because of the rules and all the books. Playing AoS with Friends convinced me, even if I think it needs some advanced rules. Keep up the good work,your modèls are beautiful !
My main issue with the programme was the real lack of showing what was going on in the battle. The editing on this aspect I thought was really poor, and made it very hard to follow the detail of the battle. Footage from the battle often being shown out of sequence. Probably too much time was given over to looking at Gregg Wallace reacting to things, though I do think his enthusiasm was definitely a good thing and he clearly knew what it was all about.
Fair point, I too found that it was sometimes difficult to follow what was happening in the battle. Conveying everything that’s going on a dynamic environment like that is tricky though, as they’ve got to cover both the virtual action in the simulation, and the real action between the players.
Andy, could one use thin sheet styrene for the bridge decking and avoid the warping issue? Also, wonder if using magnets to join the sections might be an option. Nice build and scenic job, Ric
Don’t have any Brits in my collection, but I do like what you have to them. The paint scheme looks really good along with the basing. Nice touch with the rank insignias. I really like the BTD figures. I was really please with their German Mountain Troops.
All you need to do is take a snap when you’re done and email it in with a one-liner about what you’ve painted. Easy peasy Neal.
January is a good time to start, too!
Just ordered this game, thanks for a good review. I think this game would also let one play as the bad guys due to the “stealth mode”. I’m thinking about trying to recreate the North Hollywood bank robbery from the 90s, and play as the2 robbers 😀
Cool. One of the things I like about the ruleset is how it offers the chance to do games other than pitched battles between military forces. I think cops and robbers or spies vs supervillains would be great fun.
Great info Andy and nice model, I bought one of these kits as well a while back hoping to start a desert army but noticed the AA turret and decided to make a MK II instead of a tank.
Can you help me with a question on the weapon, I thought you hit with a 4+ since its under the HE round section? cheers John
John, check out 11.8.1 in the rules. HMGs and autocannons roll to hit as if small arms. Their higher rate of fire has been factored into their HE value. Bigger guns firing single shots hit on a 4+. Autocannons still do reduce cover though, like other HE.
Ok thanks Andy, I recently played in a tournament where the German player insisted that his armoured vehicle mounting a 20mm cannon, HE hit on 4+, will have to correct him on that one.
Well, close range is 24″ so at less than that you will hit regulars on 4+. But beyond that, 5+.
To be fair to your opponent, it’s a slightly obscure rule tucked away in a quiet corner of the book. I’ve run into loads of people who weren’t aware of it and just thought anything with an HE rating always hit on 4+.
Nice job Andy. The finish is superb. It looks like a well maintained but used vehicle. Not like the current “art form” of making an AFV look like it’s been under an avalanche of rocks and then left in a field to rot for half a decade – i.e.: chipping and rusting an in service vehicle to the point of wondering if the regiment even had a maintenance depot…..
Cheers Ric. Yeah, I feel the same about units in NW Europe with incredibly “weathered” vehicles. Most vehicles would only have been in the field for a few weeks or months, tops. North Africa with sandstorms and stuff on vehicles that were a couple of years old, go for it.
Andy,
So for the purposes of fielding an Aufklarungs Platoon IAW CoC unit compositions, what is:
The number of Bikes w sidecar and any other vehicles required to lift this Platoon for a 1941 Barbarossa scenario? How big would this Platoon be when dismounted when you account for the Bike picquets etc.. Will they have 1 MG34 per section or more ?
Going forward into 1942+ are these guys giving up their Bikes for the Sdkfz250s? Is it now becoming a fully Armoured organisation based on the known recce vehicles ?
This list is just for Mar 1943 to the end of the war. Earlier bicycle, motorcycle and kubelwagen recce units would need their own list, with the relevant supports.
Another great game report! Reading the bit about the discovery of the Panzer IV really sounded like a WW2 combat report — so many memoirs focus on these little unexpected moments in a battle. I love that the CoC deployment system enables this. So despite the win during this battle, it looks like the Brits may not have enough time left to win the overall campaign?
Haha, definitely not. The chance of a win exited a few games back. They’re now playing to try and restrict the Germans to a narrow victory instead of a thumping one.
You should see the dug in boys a fair bit in the near future. We’ll be going straight into The Scottish Corridor after Martlet and the Brits will be firmly on the defensive.
Great campaign Andy, I really enjoyed it. Thank’s very much. It was also the most difficult wargame I’ve ever played. Looking forward to the Scottish corridor …………… no mortars and plenty of Tiger tanks !!!
Ouch, that Panther really dominated the game! I don’t blame the poor bloody infantry for being cautious moving about with that beast lurking around lighting up Shermans left and right.
Fantastic campaign, fantastic battle reports – I’ve really enjoyed reading each and every one of them and it’s always a treat to see an update notice show up in my inbox. Cheers and thanks for sharing – best, Nick
Thanks for these notes, very useful. The patrol and have also covers placing of jump off points, and this is also worthy of discussion, though perhaps not a full article. For example, it is tempting to place your JOPs as far forward as possible, especially in attack. However for the defender it is often helpful to place some or all of them further back. This allows the defender to delay deploying their forces until they can determine the attacker’s main axis, and also reduces the risk of having a jop overrun.
I think I do touch on that briefly with reference to the 1-up 2-back and 2-up 1-back options for JOPs. Also see the article Rich wrote and to which I’ve linked at the top of the article, which covers the topic in much more detail.
Great report – loved every minute of it. I was fascinated on how the terrain pieces changed from play-to-play of the same scenario, It widened the scope of the games I run as I was trying to be very slavish to the scenarios as mapped.
I followed your whole campaign and thoroughly enjoyed it.
When using British, i’ve always had the section Corporal spend his points to get the Bren to target just the MG42. They either get taken out or it forces their NCO to keep replacing the crew thereby shrinking the rifle team. I’ve had lots of luck so far. Are you going to show your Scottish Corridor campaign as well?
Cheers
Putting that red tuft of flowers on the base on that first miniature is inspired! Consider that idea stolen. These look great – and with Test of Honor on its way I’ll be painting some ninjas as soon as I dig them out of the lead pile. They look great – thanks for the painting tips.
Thoroughly enjoyed reading this set of reports. A friend and I played the Martlet Campaign last year and I foundered as the Brits as well. Was tough going at the time but your reports make me think about having another crack at it.
Yeah, by default Ronin deals with the Sengoku period (C16th) but there are notes in the book about adjusting it for earlier (Mongol Invasion) and later all the way up to the Boshin War. You also get Korean and Chinese lists for the fighting on the peninsular.
Andy,
We just started this campaign ourselves here in Tucson AZ. We complete the first two games: I’m playing the Germans and my buddy the Brits. The Germans do have to account for losses, but I think the support options could balance that out. In the second game, I had a Flamm Panzer III available, and that changed the flow in my favor. This should fun to track such a campaign myself, as my oldest son did that we played the other campaigns. Good gaming!
I bought a few a year ago, then another one last month at a toy show here locally. These are definitely well worth the money. I repainted mine, like you did, but I remarked them for the Hungarian army.
We’ve done the first two games too, Greg. Look out for the reports in the next couple of weeks! Have you written your games up? Would love to have a read.
I’ve not meet the flammpanzer yet, but I think it’s only a matter of time (basically however long it takes Phil to paint one!)
How do you find time to take all the great photos? I bring my camera, all is set-up but then I get so involved I usually forget to take any photos except one of the initial table set-up. I have a lot of those but none of the action.
Dick Bryant
I often get lots of photos of the early stages, then as things get busy later on I forget! But basically I’ve developed a bit of a habit of always taking snaps during my opponent’s phase.
I do need to start using a mini tripod though, some have been super blurry the last few games.
Cracking write up as usual Andy, a standard we all should be aspiring to but it takes me long enough to do mine the way I do! Unfortunately for you Phil didn’t manage to muck things up the way I did (twice!). Just a quick point: You only have to track the CO and Men’s opinion if you are the Brits, the Germans have to do everything for each of their platoons. A subtle way of making it more difficult for the Germans as time goes on.
Well, I was going to reroll for the platoon commander each time the Brits get a fresh platoon. It probably won’t make much difference, but might inject a bit of flavour.
I know you answered this for someone before, but I couldn’t find it. What program do you use to get the animation you use on your maps of the action? If I miss the photos as least I could do those.
Thanks
Dick Bryant
I cheat. They’re just still images. I capture screenshots of the “table” in Battle Chronicler, then when you play them as a “slideshow” type gallery in WordPress it makes it appear animated.
What an incredible reversal of fortune! Just goes to show a CoC game ain’t over until it’s over! I’d have been pretty demoralized as a player after that German turn. It’s a good reminder to keep fighting until the job is done – one way or the other. Great report as always.
Looking back at it I’d say the chances of the Brits winning the game were pretty minimal, the Germans just brought a ton more firepower to the party. But I gave it a good crack and it nearly paid off.
I already have the stuff and plenty of designs. What size do i shrink the square unit markings to for 28mm tanks?
Any chance of showing us in a further update please?
Many Thanks 😉
Whatever size you want, Rob. Probably about 3mm-ish. I’d strongly advise do a test print on normal paper to make sure you’ve got your size and image quality right.
Once again Andy, great AAR, I can sympathies with you in regards to the multiple Phases, as you know I have been on both ends of the Dice gods and its no fun either side.
cheers John
Interesting game. I find that a useful counter to an enemy who refuses to deploy is to send a 2-man scout team forward to threaten his JOPs. Looking at the table, you may have been able to close down both of the German JOPs in the woods, forcing him to defend them early.
Interesting idea Andrew. I was defending fairly deep though, so it was a bit of a trek up to his JOPs. I’ve never had a situation before where an attacker has refused to deploy!
The biggest problem I have with Warlord’s kit is that it doesn’t make the Mark VII! It’s because this had a different sized hull than all of the others.
I still need to find one of their old resin Mark VIIs! 🙂
It’s not something I’ve done a lot of research into, to be honest. The easiest thing to do would be to just use the US list, but I don’t know how closely they followed US organisation. Then there are unusual units like the Goumiers…
Thanks for your answer , i did plan to play with the us list , i was wondering if it was a project of yours to build some specifical rules for french troops fighting with us equipement.
Would it be possible to add a “start of turn” title card in the animations? By the time I read through the description, the animation is usually halfway through and it’s not always obvious where to rewind to. Just a thought 🙂
Great review — I still have a sprue of Wargames Factory colonial British that I gave up on because it was so fiddly to assemble. Just looking at the picture of the guide to assembly made my head hurt.
Yeah, not really fun IMO. The Warlord WW2 British infantry were pretty bad, too. About ten parts per figure. Sod that. I do much prefer metals, you get a better looking miniature for less effort.
I’m currently working on a platoon of Warlord’s American infantry. While the body is one piece for four of the figures, aligning the separate arms to hold the individual weapons is a test of patience. If I planned on doing up more than a platoon for Chain of Command, I’d be well on my way to being committed to the local mental institution. What a mess. I am a bit less apprehensive of the new American paras. The arms and weapon are one piece. One might argue that this prevents variety in the finished figures, but the separate arms and weapons can only be “adjusted” so much and one still ends up with poses being very similar amongst the group. I haven’t tried the British infantry yet, but have a box on the shelf.
For CoC I tend to do my core platoon in metal, but usually get a box of plastics to make up all those extra bits and pieces like weapons crew, engineers, medics, etc. That’s where the plastics really shine IMO, converting them into something other than standard riflemen.
Andy, this is absolutely fantastic! Love the SW theme too, very cleverly done. Really looking forward to seeing how you get on with Ronin. A few years back I had the rules and two sets of figures but eventually ebayed the lot. Doh!?
I’ve enjoyed Ronin before Matt, but the recent buzz around ToH has given me a push to get some half-finished stuff completed. Good little set of rules. Gaming at this level is all about the scenario, I like that Ronin is flexible enough to allow you to be quite creative.
That’s for a 200pt game, which I reckon is a good level for a club night. I always find the problem with these skirmish games is that you look at the figure count; say “Ho ho, this will be easy!” then end up having to make shedloads of terrain!
Thanks for the excellent review of Japanese miniatures. I have a bunch of the Dixon (Sumo) miniatures. UGH they are never going to see my painting table.
A thorough, comprehensive and well thought out review of available miniatures. Have you thought of writing for WI or WSS, this is the sort of well-balanced review they need. Thanks! Matt.
Excellent review. Now all we need to fan the sparks its generated into a fully blown fire are some AAR’s of the scope and quality of your excellent Chain of Command series.
Often the way. I’m sure the righteousness of their cause will allow them to achieve final victory over the evil fascists. God knows it isn’t going to be my generalship!
Great stuff. I know this report is a bit old but I am savoring all the content on your site. Fantastic work! I intend to read through all your campaigns. I have played a few games of CoC myself but I am struggling to get local gaming friends to see the light. I think the ‘at the sharp end” system and the pint sized campaigns are just brilliant and a much more interesting and engaging way to play WW2 war games.
They’re a fickle bunch though! I find the only reliable way to play the games you want is to provide two opposing sides, all the terrain, and put the game on yourself. Once you do that bodies magically appear to play it with you.
Once more, you have produced a superlative tale of a game for which I have long lusted. I guess that I’ll just have to invest in some figures and terrain and start playing (and stop tempting me like this, Seret!) 😉 .
great report as usual and some bad luck for the jocks , but what happened to the armour? I nkow you run or or CI in CoC very quickly and the Firely is not much use but perhaps using the 75mm Sherman to support your advance and not rushing to the BBQ – a couple of MG’s on overwatch from the tank come in handy for this too?
Yep shortage of command resources! The infantry got into trouble quickly and needed all the dice. I did deploy a tank right at the end, but it was too little too late. Basically my opponent won the little paper-scissors-rock game of picking supports. I spent loads of points buying two Shermans and then held them off-table until the big cats showed up, but it turns out there were no big cats and instead loads of infantry. Stitched me right up!
“However, I’m now starting to think that since it really does ruin the game when you’re on the wrong side of it it’s worth trying out one of the many house rules that people have suggested to fix the problem. We play wargames for the enjoyment and challenge, having your side trashed by the dice just isn’t any fun and is a waste of what could be a fun evening’s gaming. I don’t mind losing when it’s because I’ve played poorly or my opponent has played well, but sitting there watching impotently as all your choices and options get taken away from you by the command dice is just dull.”
Ha I agree 100% I have been convinced of this for a couple of years now – I am not saying stop the double turns completely but limit the run of them in some way. I am thinking of a variation on John Bonds method myself.
No, I don’t. Osprey have a rules query forum, but you have to pay to join and while there was a bit of buzz when the rules came out it’s pretty much just tumbleweed in there now.
I am looking for some Salerno scenarios and I am not sure with support lists shown for early German Italy campaign Panzer Grenadiers. I am entirely missing Flammpanzer III and Panzers III used during Salerno…
Also first Panthers showed off during Anzio. No Tiger was available at Salerno, and only 17 on them on Sicily. If I am right only one returned to mainland Italy.
Is this just oversight, or am I mising something?
Thank you for your comments and absolutely wonderfull work
The lists are fairly generic, and the Italian campaign was wide ranging and long. If you’ve done your own research that’s always going to trump a generic list for the whole campaign. Stuff like Tigers are included because they were involved in important actions. There may have only been 17 in Sicily, but they were at the pointy end of a counter-attack that almost pushed the allies back onto the beaches! Bottom line, if something is missing that you know we used, don’t let my list stop you, grab the stats from the Consolidated Arsenal and use it. I’ve got a campaign for Orsogna in the pipeline and the flammpanzers will definitely be making an appearance in that!
Excellent AAR Andy, great work with the Brits they put up a fine fight. I thought after reading the amount of support points and lack of support points you had it would be over very quickly, just shows how a bit of strategy and luck on the Dice rolls can make a difference, too bad to could not get that last Force Morale point of the Germans. PIAT s are sometimes very frustrating.
cheers John.
Yep, there was definitely an element of luck on my side. My shooting dice were consistently good and I managed to get three hits on German leaders while none of mine got hit.
Looking forward to seeing your take on it in 20mm then, Pat!
I think the unit starts to get interesting when you get to the stuff on the support list. Lots of heavy weapons and field defences! I’ve got wire, minefields, etc and I’ve also just finished a 45mm and a Zis-3.
I completely understand when you talked about the assembly of Warlords gun pieces. I have several, and all were built in similar fashion as yours. Once completed, they look really nice. Like you, playing CoC, you need th extra crews. Someone told me about the Plastic Soldier company which makes this gun and two other optional ones in the same set, but come with eight crew figures and a lot of ammo crates open/closed and empty shell rounds. I don’t own much plastic figs, but this worked well. Your model and set-up look excellent…great job!
I did look at the PSC ones. Like you say, you get a couple of guns including a very tempting infantry gun. But the Warlord one was on sale so I snapped it up!
Yeah, if he moves he’s now on foot instead of dug in, but chances are he’ll quickly attach himself to another dug-in unit, so you sort have the phenomenon of the teleporting foxhole. Hence why I dithered about whether to model him on foot or in the foxhole. If I was being really organised I’d make an identical model of him on foot, so he can jump in and out of his pit as much as he likes.
One Response to vehicles
dmchodge says:
We’re playing this one too. It’s a good campaign. The briefing in the magazine doesn’t actually say the British have to win every battle, just that they have to win on every table. So they can come back for a second shot if they lose a game, using their second platoon if necessary.
I think it would be very difficult for them to win without using this option.
Andy says:
Cheers Derek, let me know how you get on.
You’re right about the scenario just saying they have to take all four tables, I’d missed that. I wouldn’t give the Brits too many extra cracks at it though, they are against the clock after all.
dmchodge says:
We’ve got up to game three. The first platoon of British walked all over the Germas whilst taking very few causalties on tables one and two. They won scenario two (the Probe) taking no casualties at all and inflicting none on the German core force. They captured a German jump-off point after getting two consecutive moves right at the start of the game, then ran up the road under the cover of a mortar barrage.
The Germans took the counter-attack option on table three and attacked with 30 support points (they rolled a double six for supports). That didn’t go at all well for the British who have now brought up their second platoon for another go at table three.
Andy says:
30 points!? Wow. I thought the max for that scenario would be 28 though? 10 for force rating and 6+2d6 for the scenario? It’s not clear if that 2d6 for the wild card is on top of what they’d get normally, but I assumed it wasn’t, or else they’d be able to bring a whole division on.
We’re playing the probe mission this Wednesday, hopefully the Brits won’t romp through me so easily!
dmchodge says:
The text says the Germans “may select up to List 12” for games three and four, the counter attack option “allows him to add 6+2D6 points for that game only”.
If the 6 +2D6 wasn’t additional the Germans would be counter-attacking with an average of 13 points compared to the 12 they’d get for defending. And there would be a chance of just over 20% that they’d actually get fewer supports.
Andy says:
Are you using CoC Derek? Because those listed support levels are only if you’re using a different rule set. The text says that if you’re using CoC you roll for support as normal. We nearly made the exact same mistake.
dmchodge says:
Oops! using CoC and giving the Germans too many support points. They didn’t need them all anyway 🙂
dmchodge says:
Couldn’t use them all to tell the truth. Not enough Command dice.
Andy says:
You might have been giving them too little, too. Phil didn’t seem terribly impressed to learn I had 13 points in hand for the patrol game!
John Mumford says:
Great review. Did not realise you had looked at M&T we have been playing it for 2 years now and love it – its one of my favourite rule sets to play.
Cheers
TT
Kampfgruppe Engel says:
Really nice work. Thanks
Leif Eriksson says:
Very nice save! Good work, and the end result is very good!
Andy says:
Thanks. Now if I can just figure out how to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat in my games…
Pat G says:
Great report
Pat G says:
Nice idea and well executed
Pat G says:
Thanks
Emilio Moskowich Burgo says:
The list is nice, but I´ve got a doubt. The armoured reconaissance squad was 12 men strong. The 250 was integral to the squad (2 per squad). Two men manned the vehicle (driver and gunner). So how can these facts be brought into a list?
References:
http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/Reconnaissance/Aufklarungs/Gepanzert/panzer_reconnaissance_battalion%201944%20to%201945.htm
http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn1113gp1nov41.htm
http://www.niehorster.org/011_germany/44_organ/43-11-01/kstn_1113%28gp%29.html
Cheers!!
Emilio
Andy says:
Hi Emilio,
AFAIK there was no assistant driver like you’d have in a 251. Each squad could provide ten men to fight on foot. The drivers would stay with the vehicles and if they weren’t required they would take them to the rear, camouflage them and provide security.
Emilio Moskowich Burgo says:
yes, I messed the 250 with the 251!!
Neal says:
I have been hesitating to finish some British vehicles, because I just haven’t done recent research on markings… Can you post the link(s) that you use for this information?
Thanks!
Andy says:
There’s some stuff online, the FoW site is actually a pretty good resource:
British Tank Markings in Normandy
British Tank Units & Markings Italy
Vehicle Markings 21st Army Group 1944-45
The “Armor Color Gallery” books are great though. They’ve got lots of detail about markings and camo, and heaps of photos that show what the vehicles actually looked like in service, which also helps with stuff like stowage and all the little tweaks that crews would make to their vehicles. I built my Bren gun carriers differently from the instructions in the kit based on photos from one of those books. Highly recommended.
Neal says:
Thanks! I was planning to use the FOW site, but wasn’t sure if there was something “better”.
I just don’t “know” the British Army very well. 🙂
PatG says:
Nice lists.
John Michael says:
Good point about the bases JOP’s being square, I am going to have to think about this.
John
Garrett says:
This is great! Thanks for sharing. I ran a “Tanksgiving Day” game using modified CoC rules last month too. You can find my rules addendum and writeup on my blog. I really like some of the features in yours, especially the card activation and the encouragement to run tanks off the opposing player’s baseline. I think I may heavily borrow from your rules next November…
JOHN BOND says:
Nice paint work on the vehicles, Have downloaded the rules, thanks for sharing , the brit looks a bit too cool in the back of the Bren carrier near the Panther, I think I would be shivering in my boots. Nice clear photos.
Andy says:
He does look a bit laid back, doesn’t he? There was some cheeky manoeuvring going on there actually, lots of laughs.
Matt Owens-Smith says:
Looks like a lot of fun! 😀
Matt says:
That has turned out great! Glad it did the trick.
Really good idea on insulating the sieve, can’t believe we didn’t think about it (or maybe we were having too much fun shocking each other…)!
Andy says:
Yeah, not had a zap from it yet. The mesh part is still live, how long do you reckon my luck will hold?
Matt says:
A very neat tutorial. Might have to give it a whirl.
John Michael says:
well, i believe you accomplished quite a bit. good luck with your projects this year and have a happy new year
Matt OS says:
Andy,
You’ve achieved a lot there, well done!
Best of luck for your 2016 projects. I’ll look forward to seeing it all the blog.
Happy New Year!
Cheers
Matt
Jonas Eng says:
Excellent writeup. I too are looking forward to this game.
I have for a long time been interested in a spacegame but have never found one that seemed any good. I think you captrue my thoughts exactly here.
With to many space games looking to close to an Age of sail as you said. Then why not just play an Age of sail game… Besides a Ship of the line is soo mutch more beutifull then all other spaceships out their. Then came Dropship commander… A new fresh take on the Space game janra and with excellent looking miniatures. An now even in plastic that enable them to make for some really interesting designs and slender looking miniatures.
This summer/autum will be great and many a spaceships will be assembled.
Cheers for an excellent post/ Jonas
Jonas Eng says:
Dont forget these. 😛
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaTmNxQ_FM0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92GeJ5uf6Hc
Dan says:
A couple of comments/questions for the early list:
– The 2″ mortars variously have 2/3/4 crew depending on the source. Is this deliberate?
– Is there a reason the list uses the Boys ATR? The Official History of New Zealand in the Second World War 1939–1945, Italy Volume I: The Sangro to Cassino, pgs 33 & 34 would indicate that the changeover to the PIAT occurred at the same time as the Staghound provision.
– What weapon choices does the Recce section in Universal Carriers have?
Andy says:
2″ mortars in most CoC lists come with a 2-man crew, but my own reading suggests that where present the OC’s batman was expected to join the 2″ crew as a third man. I don’t think it makes a big difference either way. I’ve not read anything about 4-man crews myself.
Excellent spot on the issue date for the PIAT, I’ll amend the list right away.
Universal Carriers can carry a Bren, 2″ mortar or a PIAT as per the recce section in the main rulebook. I’ve also seen some still in use quite late mounting Boys rifles. It seems 2nd NZ had a bit of a habit of bodging just about any surplus weaponry they could find into their carriers, hence the proliferation of 30 cal and even 50 cal guns in pics.
Cheers Dan, good feedback!
Dan says:
I see I’ve not explained the 2″ Mortar crew question very well. The Infantry Platoon has 3 crew, the Motor Platoon has 2 crew & the support list has 4 crew. From the earlier answer, am I right in assuming the 4 crew in the support list is an error?
& a followup question for the early list:
– Did the Infantry Platoon really have no assigned AT weapon?
Awesome overview of the Italian campaign by the way, it’s fired up my interest! My wallet isn’t so enthusiastic though…
Andy says:
Ah yes, typo in the support list! Cheers.
Scale of issue for the PIAT is a bit hazy. If you wanted to include it at the platoon level and pull a couple of men out from rifle sections to man it I don’t think it’s going to be a problem for game balance. I’ve taken the view that it wasn’t a weapon routinely used and that platoon commanders can deliberately include one if they feel the need (ie: get it off the support list with a dedicated crew).
I reckon the most wallet-friendly way into Italy is to start with the later half of the campaign and used miniatures wearing normal temperate uniforms, that way it’s just a matter of sorting a bit of terrain. Having said that, the Perry plastics are a good cheap (£20) way of doing Brits in shorts for Sicily.
Dan says:
Yep, I’m inclined to do just that. I do like the Perry plastics, but would have to sort support weapons (ie, the PIAT) for those in any case, so may as well just start with later.
Any suggestions on where to source 28mm Staghounds? All I’ve really found are Bronco (1/48) and the RTFM/diewaffenkammer (28mm) ones.
Andy says:
Looks like Blitzkrieg do some as well, but they’ve only got 3D renders on their site and I’ve never bought anything from them. I can’t vouch for the quality.
PatG says:
Great list with an interesting theme. I may actually have enough 20mm soviets to pull this off – thanks! I have one minor concern about the 81mm direct fire support. The mortar should have a minimum range. Years ago I trained on the L 16 and our minimum range was 100 yards. No firing it from the horizontal braced against a tree like the 2″. 😉
Andy says:
Minimum range is listed as 24″ when you look in the table at the bottom of the document. I’ll make that a bit more explicit in the next version, which should be out very soon with some of the excellent suggestions I’ve had so far!
Carlo says:
Fantastic work Andy – superb tuition as always from your excellent blog.
Andy says:
Cheers Carlo. Loving the pics of the BigCoC game on your blog. Looks like a lot of fun!
Neal says:
Thanks especially for the hedgehog pics! That helps a lot!
Was the wire the typical stuff sold by GF9 and others? I have a bunch of it coiled up and was wondering how I was going to get it to look right…
Andy says:
Yep, same stuff Neal. All you need to do is find something the right thickness to wind it around. The coils should be about waist height on whatever scale miniatures you’re using.
Neal says:
Thanks! I have a “large” plastic syringe (have no idea where it came from) that works well for making the wraps.
Jon says:
Does the Command Post count as a field defense for the first 3 points of support spent?
Andy says:
Sure does!
Matt OS says:
Very tidy indeed Mr D, I especially like the wire sections. Might have to rethink mine now!
JOHN BOND says:
Nice work Andy, especially like the Hedgehogs, great trick for the rust on the barbed wire, this page will be a great reference when I get around to the stage of making some of my own, thanks for sharing info.
Andy says:
Judging by the standards of your recent JOPs and engineer conversions I’m sure yours will put mine to shame, John!
Matt OS says:
Good work there with that ink, sir! I really like the shed too, very characterful. The tape on corners tip is a good idea, thanks.
Matt
Carlo says:
Excellent and entertaining report Andy.
Pat G says:
Very nice work indeed.
Neal says:
I, for one, appreciate you not sugar-coating it. 🙂
A review should be bad, if the game doesn’t give the reviewer what he’s looking for out of the game. Having to do this much house-ruling and people already talking about taking this piece and that piece have convinced me these rules are not worth it.
Thanks!
Andy says:
Honestly I find them a bit infuriating. With the right tweaks there could be a really good game in there, but out of the box I think they’re a bit broken. Not irreparably though…
Carlo says:
Looking forward to following this Andy.
Prapat says:
Hi Tyler!I’m a fan of the Artizan fiugres too. I have a few Crusader fiugres in the mix of stuff I have partly becasue of availability at the time or their pack contents more suited my needs, but as you say they’re pretty damn chunky or as I like to say They look a little too well fed compared to the pictures I’ve seen of half-starved young men that actually fought Foundry does (or did..?) make paras (and commandos..) which are nice and could be useful as members of the Canadian Parachute Battalion. You might also look at West Wind Productions’ Berlin or Bust line. Their weapons and equipment are considerably smaller than the Artizan stuff if you’re planning to mix and match and fussy about that sort of thing Also Battle Honors makes a pretty extensive line of 25/28mm WW2 fiugres. I think I have a section of them and they too are a touch on the smaller side. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!cheers,tim
Andrew lane says:
Excellent game can’t wait to see it in the flesh
John Michael says:
Well that was a terrific write up. I am shocked the British did what they did with so few casualties. I suppose they really got the jump with the free moves and the double phases while the Germans had late deployment. Very done, I am looking forward to your next write up. John
Andy says:
It’s all about focussing on the objective…and rolling incredibly jammy dice, John!
JOHN BOND says:
Yes I’ll second that ,a excellent write up, love your detail, especially the interactive pictures showing deployment and movement of the troops, nice reproduction of map on the gaming table and a good game,thanks Andy.
Carlo says:
Great read Andy – I do favour the old jeep myself as well in games requiring a speedy exit through enemy lines. Great post.
Garrett says:
Great post! I learn so much from your reports–keep them coming!
Masai IV – A Grab Bag of Games says:
[…] with M&T here is an excellent concise summation of the game with more useful reviews here and here. An nice quick look at various aspects of play are given in this short series of videos that show […]
Neal says:
Excellent report! I have a VW Beetle staff car for just these kinds of situations. 🙂
Matt OS says:
Bang tidy!!! Looking forward to seeing these excellent fellows in action! Very good work sir 🙂
Matt
JOHN BOND says:
Nice work Andy on the New Zealand troops and yes I have to agree with you on the warlord plastic late war Brits, it took a couple of weeks to do what you said, work out and put all those pieces together, cutting off and rearranging arms, hands, legs even chopping bodies in half to get a more natural pose. I painstakingly put a Platoon together along with the support troops. The newer plastics released by warlord have better poses and are easier to assemble, I purchased a box of recently released German grenadiers and the figure have improved.
cheers.
Matt1066 says:
Andy,
They look superb! Your experiments with AP are going really well. My favourite is the guy crouching and ramming the musket – he seems to have a proper maniacal stare!
You’re right about figuring out how to blend it with your own style. Takes a bit of ‘twiddling’ but worth it. I did my Saxon army using the same technique. The first few batches of figures were a bit hit and miss but once you get used to it they start to roll off the production line.
Pooling suggestion – give the figures about 30 mins and then check for any unsightly puddles and wick ’em away with a bit of tissue.
I’ve often been tempted by this theatre (although the European aspect of the SYW is a bit boring), but so far I have managed to resist! But you’re not helping! ;o)
Cheers
Matt
PS – The last lot of Perry metals I had were shocking!! Think they’re done by the same bods as Great War Miniatures.
Andy says:
Cheers Matt. I think the Quickshade works a lot better with some things than others. Flesh works well, flat areas of clothing not so much. Definitely agree about pooling though, that’s also why I’ve taken to brush it on instead of dipping, you get better control of how much goes on.
JOHN BOND says:
Nice work Andy, I have been interesting in this type of wargaming, even since I watched ‘last of the Mohicans’ at the movies but I am trying to concentrate on finishing one project at a time.
cheers
Andy says:
I find having a couple on the go actually helps with motivation John. If I get sick of painting one thing it’s good to switch to something completely different for a bit.
I’ve got some French line infantry to finish ( these guys https://twitter.com/TinyHordes/status/687210224684560385), but one of the nice things about Muskets and Tomahawks is you can play with only about 20 miniatures.
JOHN BOND says:
Nice work on the French guys.
I too have a couple on the go, at the moment I am switching between painting infantry and vehicles, once I finish my British army for CofC , I will move onto terrain but I have ordered the rule book tor Muskets and Tomahawks, so that’s a start.
Nicholas Caldwell says:
Great report – especially the maps! What did you use to create those? This sounds like a very tough battle for the Brits – not only tough but potentially un-fun? I’m trying to think of how they could handle the situation differently. It doesn’t seem like there’s much room to maneuver for either side in this scenario.
Andy says:
The maps are created in Battle Chronicler.
It certainly can be a tough battle for the Brits, exactly how tough will depend a lot on how they role for the effects of their drop. I don’t think they can expect to win, their objective is to try and give the Germans a bloody nose and withdraw in good order. That’s challenging enough to be fun IMO.
Nicholas Caldwell says:
Thanks for the link! Also, I read the rest of your reports and I see what you mean — this is the kind of battle that makes much more sense in context of the campaign. I’ve wish-listed this campaign based on your play-throughs. You should get a commission. 🙂
Nicholas Caldwell says:
Thoroughly enjoyed reading these. Thanks for posting them!
Monty says:
Great table and write-up. And painting too!
Andy says:
The nicely painted Germans are Phil’s work. My Brits don’t come anywhere near his standards I’m afraid. The terrain is a mix of his, mine and the club’s stuff.
JOHN BOND says:
As always excellent report on the battle.
Andy says:
Cheers John. Next game has been played, too. As soon as I sort the maps I’ll put it up, the result is pretty dramatic!
Matt1066 says:
Good work on that Cromwell! The subtle but effective weathering is very good. Can I ask … what is pin washing? Thanks. Matt.
Andy says:
Cheers Matt! Pin wash aka black lining. Basically painting black ink with a fine brush into all the panel lines and things like rivet heads.
Matt1066 says:
Thanks Andy. Crumbs, that sounds like a lot of work but I think I might give it go when I get around to my ‘proper’ tanks :o) Got a Sherman, Cromwell and a Tiger (!?) saved for a rainy day. Certainly very effective.
Cheers
Matt
JOHN BOND says:
Nice job Andy, on spoorsing up the Cromwell, with the commander and the weathering.
cheers
Jack Garrett says:
Great battle report, though I have one question. From what I recall, the winners of a scenario recover casualties equal to the difference in force morale between them and the loser, but your butcher’s bill seems not to include this effect, is that a personal choice or something from this campaign handbook?
Andy says:
I don’t have the actual casualties recorded in the game to hand any more, but we do apply that rule. Although looking back at this report it suggests I took 9 casualties in the battle, which seems like a lot. Hmm. If I did forget it won’t affect things too much, I would have only been one man up in the next game.
Jack Garrett says:
Ah, I see. I’ve always read that rule as only applying to casualties from the core platoon and not applied it to support losses. That might explain why the attackers have tended to romp through my campaigns with ease.
Andy says:
The only thing we count support losses against is the roll for the men’s opinion.
John Michael says:
Hi, Nice report. I found the Sherman not useful in my last Closing the Gap Campaign. I knew before the game started that at best the Germans would have a Panzerschreck to take on armour. They did get off a couple of shots but I had the hull obscured which made it a bit of a challenge, fortunately for the Germans isolated the Panzerschreck without supports so I was able to take it out with a couple of HMG blasts.
Despite this though the 6 HE from the Sherman did little to soften up the German panzergrenadiers in a stone building.
I have yet to play a tank on tank battle in this campaign, so it was interesting to read about yours. Great report.
Andy says:
Inclined to agree, but I did have two of them! I did think long and hard about whether to take the VC as it’s a bit useless once the enemy armour is dealt with. If they all survived the tank battle three 75mm guns would have made a definite impression on the buildings, but in the end I figured I had to actually win the tank battle in order to get any rounds in against the farm.
Part of my thinking was to kill the free Panzer IV that the Germans get and allow me to use the AVRE more freely in the rest of the campaign.
Nicholas Caldwell says:
Fun report! I’ve played many games of the old PC game Combat Mission where one German tank could do in an entire American tank platoon. This reminded me fondly of those battles. Enjoying the campaign – I’ve about got my first CoC units completed and ready for my first game – looking forward to it!
Rob says:
I love reading these AAR’s. Another great game of Chain of Command. I’m just about to fight this scenario. I’m losing confidence now after reading this……..Doh!!
Brilliant, keep em coming 😉
Andy says:
Just don’t do it the way I did and you’ll be fine!
George says:
Hard lines Andy, but well done Phil. Great report, I am going to try these scenarios with Bolt Action when I get my troops ready.
JOHN BOND says:
Thanks Andy, great AAR.
JOHN BOND says:
Excellent idea and work Andy, I saw your early work on your dug in German Infantry a while back and thought it was a great idea, portraying dug in troops like you have looks more realistic on the gaming table. I hope you don’t mind I’ll will have to pinch your idea and make some up for my Brits, thanks for the inspiration and sharing info.
cheers.
Andy says:
Given your excellent conversion efforts on the rest of your platoon John, I’m sure yours will put mine to shame!
Not my idea though, I think I first read it in one of Phil Barker’s old WRG rulesets!
Matt1066 says:
Andy,
Great work with those dug-in British. I think the figures are just fine, as I look at them they’re posed such that they’re on the look-out and have just spotted the first enemy. Might have to pick up a sprue or two from Warlord. For dug-in troops I currently have to use regular figures stood behind some hefty sandbag resin pieces – does the trick but just doesn’t quite look ‘right’ if you see what I mean.
Cheers
Matt
Andy says:
I posted them on the SOTCW forum and someone said similar about the “wall of sandbags” approach. He said he thought it made them look like black powder-era troops behind gabions, which is a fair point.
Warlord occasionally do their half-price sprue sale, although the last one was only a couple of months ago I think.
Nick says:
Wow – I JUST started using trello for both painting and developing a set of rules that I’ve been working on. I like the idea of a priority board and I’m going to start tracking miniature from acquisition (how many of us have figured we’ve forgotten about!) to final finish. Another tip – make it a public board to be held accountable!
Neal says:
I was starting to setup Trello for this also, but… got side-tracked… 🙂
Neal says:
Honestly, I think I remember getting bogged down in all of the options on how to organize the projects… 🙂
George says:
I don’t buy anything I don’t need and generally finish one project before starting another, my lead mountain is around 30 unwanted figures. I do however need to stop new projects.
Andy says:
I don’t buy anything I don’t need either, George. I just need lots of things! Currently collecting for WW2, dark ages, FIW and feudal Japan, and some fool just started a Kickstarter with lots of nice pirates!
JOHN BOND says:
I agree Andy, I don t use a computer program but I use a note book and record what I need to do for the following day,ideas for modelling /set tasks needed to be completed the following day etc.
As you mentioned slugging it out on one painting project can be tough mentally but working on different small projects is more productive.
I also set one theater of war I what to complete before moving onto another but in the meantime I am recording in my note book ideas for models,terrain , models needed to purchase etc for another theater of war so I will be ready.
cheers.
Andy says:
To be honest you could do pretty much everything Trello does with a notice board and some drawing pins.
But yes, you’ve grasped the point I was hoping to get across that it’s not necessarily about the tools, it’s about figuring out what kind of motivational poke your own brain responds to.
Neal says:
My most effective motivational poke is to actually play in some games. A convention usually gets me going. 🙂
I haven’t really played much since August 2015… That should tell you how my projects are going too… 🙂
Matt says:
That looks like exactly the sort of thing I need! Anything to keep the butterfly on track. However, is there a danger of spending all your time “planning” rather than actually doing? ;o)
Andy says:
Haha, possibly Matt! The other risk is that once you can see everything you’ve got to do in front of your face you might run screaming.
Dan says:
So I’ve played around with these a bit now and I’ve noticed a number of small issues:
– The Stuart Recce is support List 3 on the late version , List 4 on the early version.
– The late version Motor Rifle squad is identical in composition to the early infantry squad (List 4) but is on List 3.
– The 50cal Universal carrier has HE listed as HMG in the late list, 10 in the early list. I’m assuming the 50cal is intended to be top mounted?
– Boys AT Rifle entry in the early armory can be removed. PIAT can be added to both.
– Staghound Mk II comes out as 3+3+6+1(wheeled)+1(MG) = 14. Staghound Mk I is 3+5+4(MG overides the HE)+1(wheeled)+2(Hull & Coax MG) = 15. Unless the Mk 1 has had a theme discount applied, they should both be List 5.
Opinion follows! Feel free to ignore as you see fit.
Depending on the reinforcement pattern of the NZ forces (trickle feed or complete formations?) I’d suggest that Regular should be an option on the lists, particularly the early list. Alternatively, leave it in to allow for those not using the Experienced Regulars (Veteran?) rules.
I’m not sure that the pintle AA mounts on the Sherman & Firefly are justified. Written & pictorial evidence appears to indicate that the majority of Commonwealth Shermans in Italy had them removed/not fitted.
Andy says:
Dan,
Excellent work, thanks!
Agree with 99% of what you’ve put:
– Stuart recce now on List 4 in both versions
– Late Motor Platoon squad goes up to List 4, suspect this was a copy-paste error
– 50cal on Bren is a scrounged gun welded to the carrier so yes will be top-mounted. Not dismountable as no tripod was available. I’ve changed both lists to say “HMG” instead of HE 10, just to make it a bit clearer.
– Boys AT rifle was already gone as of ver5 of the list, PIAT was in use by the time of their first action in Italy, although some Boys were still knocking about I don’t believe they saw much use and I can’t imagine wargamers having any reason to want one.
– Both Staghounds now List 5, thanks.
Re: reinforcements. It was trickle-feed, although given the requirement to ship them all the way across the world they arrived in pretty big batches. Experienced men were sent on furlough on several occasions, and rarely returned to their original unit, while casualties obviously created vacancies too. These were filled when a batch of replacements arrived from NZ. At times that meant that the battalions entered combat with a lot of green men, but they were generally less than 1/3 of the total number, with “old hands” making up the majority at all levels, right down to individual sections. That’s why I went for Experienced Regulars instead of Elites. Eighth Army in general were pretty tough and their years of experience in the desert should be reflected IMO.
As for the AA pintle mounts, you’re probably right about that. I certainly haven’t modelled any on my Kiwi tanks.
Dan says:
Sorry, should have been more specific again. The Arsenal Table has a guns listing down the bottom. The late list is missing the PIAT, the early list has the Boys and is missing the PIAT as well. Pedantic, but helps to have all the references in one place!
As the 50cal UC is a non-standard vehicle, it’d probably be worth mentioning the intention for the top-mount for the 50cal in the notes/list description.
With trickle feed for the reinforcements, I can see why you’ve chosen Experienced Regular for the majority of the time. I’m slightly unconvinced for the beginning of the time period though – somewhere between 1/2 &1/3 of the division was green (6000 on furlough, only ~1100 of those returned, so 4900 green in a division of 13k-18k : http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/war/second-world-war-at-home/hello-and-goodbye).
Am I right in assuming the split on early/late for the Motor Rifle platoon is just for convenience and that they should be using the early support list prior to Sept 44? Pedantic again 😉
Andy says:
You’re right, I didn’t bother to list the PIAT in with the guns and such. I probably should put that in the next version for completeness.
I’m not sure where people would think you could mount a 50cal M2 gun apart from on top of a carrier! But it might be worth hunting down a photo for future versions.
You’re talking about Orsogna re the reinforcements? The battalions that did most of the fighting were the 21st and 23rd. 23rd sent home 157 men and received 220 replacements who hadn’t yet seen action (27% of their strength). The high calibre of these new men is noted in the battalion’s war diary though, probably due to the fact training roles back home were now held by experienced combat veterans. Certainly the performance of 21st and 23rd against some tough troops at Orsogna showed they were still capable of going toe-to-toe with elite troops like fallschirmjager and defeating them. given that some of the Pint Sized campaigns rate units like 49th West Riding as regular on their first day of combat I’m willing to cut the hard nuts of Eighth army some slack!
For 22 Bn in the period June-Sept 44 I’d probably use the early lists, yes. The only real action of note that would affect would be La Romola.
Dan says:
Sure, but some of the pics of 50cals on UC have it mounted over the gunners position. Some pics also show just UCs with a single 30cal mounted there – and the argument would run that we’re treating those as the hull MG, so why not hull mounted for the 50cal as well? (In a way, the 10 HE entry was actually clearer what the intent was.) There’s also pics with a Vickers actually mounted in the gun port, so it’s not like there’s a lack of space!
I think this one boils down to CoC rules – I doubt there was any noticeable difference to the troops using it whether it was mounted in the gun port, above the port or further back on the carrier.
I hadn’t looked into specifics of where the reinforcements had gone – I’ll bow out of the argument on that one, pending more research. Your case is sound given the evidence so far! Having said that, I’ll run the lists through the CoCulator for personal use as Regulars – purely because I can’t convince some of my opponents to try the intermediate Experienced grading.
Andy says:
Where a 30cal has been welded onto a carrier I wouldn’t treat it as a hull MG. WYSIWG applies here, I think. If your model has the gun on a pintle mount, then it’s a pintle gun, if it’s mounted in the hull (as some stuff was, even ATRs) then it’s a hull gun. Fire arc changes, but not the number of dice.
Fair enough about regulars if your opponents aren’t convinced.
Dan says:
There’s evidence of the M10 Achilles being used in Italy: there’s pictures of British ones as early as October 44, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/17pdr_SP_Achilles#/media/File:Armoured_Ramp_Carrier_03.jpg for an example.
There’s a picture of a NZ Achilles in ‘Camouflage and Markings of the 2nd New Zealand Division – Part 2: Italy’ (Plowman, 2007) on page 42. No clear information on when they were provided that I’ve been able to find though, and the NZ picture is late enough that it potentially never saw combat.
On the M10 Wolverines – http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz//tm/scholarly/tei-WH2Arti-c19-1.html has them as delivered in June 44 and first used July 44. That puts them in scope for the support list for the Early list. Currently there’s no way to represent the ArmCav force in San Casciano, with the addition of M10s to the early list there’d no longer be a problem.
Andy says:
That photo is in Trieste Dan, and given that 7th AT had been taken out of front-line fighting and were mostly doing indirect fire in the late stages I think your hunch that the M10 Fireflies never saw combat is probably right.
The introduction date for the M10 does overlap the very end of the early list slightly. Feel free to use them in actions Jul-Aug 44 if you want. Armcav could be quite an interesting force to game with actually, it was like a mini armoured task force within an infantry division, something probably only 2NZ as a mixed division could do.
Dan says:
Found the missing information on the date of provision of the M10 Achilles – changing search terms to M10C made it much easier. http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz//tm/scholarly/tei-WH2Arti-c21-5.html#n684
“In mid-January an M10c arrived in 32 Battery—an M10 with a 17-pounder gun, far more powerful than the 3-inch of the normal M10. It was taken out on the 18th for a practice shoot with HE ammunition.”
That said, there’s still no evidence that it saw combat other than in indirect fire mode, nor that there was ever more than this single example. Interesting to note that the 17lb HE ammunition was available and apparently this wasn’t unusual enough to warrant comment. Might be enough to justify HE on the Sherman Fireflies as well?
Andy says:
Yeah, that’s the problem with a lot of the terms wargamers use like “Achilles” and “Sherman Firefly”. The M10Cs weren’t called Achilles during the war, if they were called anything other than M10s it was often actually “Firefly”. You can hear the veterans calling them that in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B-sfUFWG8Y. The name Firefly wasn’t really used for the Sherman VC mounting the 17pdr as far as I can tell.
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Nice work Andy, clever use of the Sherman, thanks background info, where they used in Europe as well?
Here are a few sites that may help;
http://www.canadiankangaroos.ca/Site/News/Entries/2007/8/12_Ram_Kangaroo_Models!.html
http://www.ww2f.com/topic/3100-kangaroo/
http://www.mapleleafup.net/vehicles/restorations/restore7.html
cheers
Andy says:
Cheers John. Ram and Priest Kanagaroos definitely saw use in NW Europe, not sure about the Shermans. The Stuart Jalopies saw occasional use as troop carriers, too.
German Motorised PanzerGrenadier Platoon Summer 1943 - Lardy Lists says:
[…] Background/Notes: One Tough Gut […]
German Armoured PanzerGrenadiers Summer 1943 - Lardy Lists says:
[…] Background/Notes: One Tough Gut […]
German Fallschirmjäger Summer 1943 - Lardy Lists says:
[…] Background/Notes: One Tough Gut […]
Matt1066 says:
Neat work with that conversion! The group of infantry “crew” are very well posed.
Nick says:
Great report! I’ve been wondering about these rules. Creating realistic movement for programmed opponents is tricky at best and I wondered how well this rule set handled it. Great terrain too!
Andy says:
The advice in the rule book is pretty common sense. If the result you roll doesn’t make sense then it says to change it the minimum amount to come up with a sensible result. There’s a nice simple system where the movement of the guards gets less random as the attacker makes more noise.
Laffe says:
Nice report! Interesting too, that the rules are useable for WW2. Will give them a gander I think.
Andy says:
The only real change I made was to the equipment each man carried. Drop the body armour and switch the assault rifles to bolt action ones. The points values for everything are in the back so it’s easily done.
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Wow, thanks for the great write up Andy, It was a exciting read, wondering whether the Brits were going to complete their mission or not.
Andy says:
That final shot from the sniper was a beauty, to be sure.
John Michael says:
Another terrific AR
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Thanks for the great AAR Andy , thoroughly enjoyed reading it, those mortars can be a blessing or a curse , you where on the blessed side, last weekend I was on the cursed side with my opponent continually rolling COC dice to keep the mortars going.
cheers
Andy says:
I’ve had mortars be a real damp squib, too.
If you don’t roll more 5’s than the other guy then the barrage ends really fast and your 4 support points are wasted. If you roll more 5’s then it can last all game. I’m still not totally sold on the way they work.
Phil says:
As I’m usually on the receiving end of Andy’s mortars, I can confirm that they work !!
George says:
Great stuff, nearly ready to try my own mini-campaign, I have Martlett, Scottish Corridor and the Para one, but I have to dream one up for the Ostfront.
PatG says:
Nice bit of work there.
Nicholas Caldwell says:
Fascinating – -I’m currently reading _With the Jocks_ which is the wartime diary of a British officer. I had noticed the author uses the terms 17pdr Sherman and I think he used “TDs” as well.
Andy says:
And that’s exactly where I’m coming from with this. When you read period sources you very quickly realise that the names in common use today are a bit weird. How did we ever end up using them?
Thanks for saying “fascinating” instead of “shut up you pedant”, btw 😉
Matt OS says:
Andy, you’re definitely not a pedant, you put a very practical spin on things. I certainly learned some things here. I knew “firefly” was a misnomer but wasn’t sure about the correct designation? Thanks for all the useful information. 🙂
Matt
George says:
Yippee, I got them all right, albeit two were educated guesses. Very interesting, let’s see who picks me up when I keep referring to my Achilles as the M10 or TD, any bets how long?
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Thanks Andy, for the info and the video link .
cheers
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Great AAR Andy, always a good read, I always like the Lessons Learned part.
cheers
Andy says:
Cheers John. The way I structure my reports is loosely based on how the actual military conduct briefings and AARs. There’s always something to take away from having a little post-match think about the game.
Bob SMITH says:
I have spent the past few years researching this battle. My Uncle Bob was the gunner in the DD Sherman who was killed during the fire at the Rauray Farm Gates. Trooper 14570907 Robert Alinson SMITH Nottinghamshire Yeomanry Royal Armoured Corps. He is buried together with his tank commander Sgt GREEN in Fontenay Le Pesnel cemetery nearby. Tjhis encounter is included in the book By Tank Into Normandy by the legendary Stuart HILLS who was also a tank commander involved in Operation Martlet.
Kindest regards. Bob SMITH
Please feel free to get in touch.
Todd says:
I’m going to bolt on the command to BKCII to see how they work.
Andy says:
I’d be interested to hear how that works. What scale do you play in? I think the tokens could get a bit out of hand in the smaller scales.
Matt1066 says:
Enjoy! I’ve heard some good things about LR, but it would be yet another project :-S
Cheers
Matt
Adam Clark says:
Cool tips – particularly the plowed fields.
Neal says:
I wish I could find mats, like that, for that kind of price in the US! Wilko doesn’t ship to the US unfortunately… 🙂
Andy says:
Royal Mail rates would probably be about £6 if you wanted me to send you one Neal. But you can probably find one somewhere near you for less.
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Thanks for the terrain tips Andy, I am starting to venture into terrain making, In My recent game of COC, my opponent used the Haystacks you mentioned as his JOPs.
cheers
Matt1066 says:
Top tips there Andy!
Thanks
Matt
Anonymous says:
Your done a great rebirth on the jeep, looks excellent Andy.
Andy says:
Thank you most kindly, mystery guest!
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Sorry Andy,the mystery guest is me
Nick says:
They both look good, but I agree the toweling looks better. So what kind of towel was it — just cotton? Bath towel or kitchen towel? I’ve seen this method a lot but I’ve never seen someone show the towels beforehand so I’ve always been curious. RE the teddy bear fur, I think you’d get good results with that especially once you’ve combed it through with PVA. It makes a bit of a mess as the fur comes off quite easily at first, but by the end you have a nice effect that’s nearly bullet-proof (caveat – I made palm tree leaves, not thatched roofs, but I assume the effect is the same)
Andy says:
Just ordinary bath towel, Nick. Looks like this before you paint it:
PatG says:
A very useful post. Towels it is then.
John Pilatos says:
Cleaver idea.
Nicholas Caldwell says:
Fantastic – I love these reports. The Brits definitely have their work cut out for them!
George says:
Excellent report. What happened to the AVRE then, not the right command dice? That just doesn’t make sense to me, but perhaps I am wrong and it was something else?
Andy says:
I sent the Sherman ahead through the orchards to draw out any nasty surprises, then all my command dice got sucked into managing the infantry fight at the farm. It would have taken too long to deploy the AVRE and bring it up to the point where it was useful (at least 3-4 phases).
Like I said, I should have sat tight with the infantry and brought up more support (AVRE and the third section) before attacking. I think part of the problem is the pressure to get a result in during a club night game (about 3 hours) so there’s no much time for messing about.
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Excellent AAR Andy , always a good read,
cheers John
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Excellent conversion work on the building Andy, great job on the roof and walls , like the pig pen too.
cheers John
Andy says:
Looking back at it you could probably scratch build the “grub huts” as easily as buying them, they’re so simple.
The pig pen is must-have scenery for a Dark Age village I reckon! (Or maybe it’s an anarcho-syndicalist commune…)
Dave Toone says:
Nice work Andy – I may need to nick some of those ideas for my own gaming table! 😉
Andy says:
Cheers Dave, nick away!
Rob says:
Fantastic report. An extremely tough time for the British. Shows how close to history you can sail when using Chain of Command rules, i love em. Many thanks for posting these great bat reps.
George says:
Excellent work Andy, but a bit more explanation of the towel magic?
Andy says:
See here, George.
Matt OS says:
Absolutely stunning mate! The roofs are superb and all the little extras really help set the scene!
Matt
Nicholas Caldwell says:
I wish I’d read this before painting my Sharp Practice MDF tokens. A white gel pen would have been loads easier for that as well. I love the tax collector and tax markers – might be stealing that idea. 🙂
Andy says:
I did try painting them, but it was a pain in the bum and I made a bit of a hash of it. White pen is absolutely the way forward!
Laffe says:
That’s a nice tip, thanks! And awesome scratch building skills, whatever you say!
Neal says:
AWESOME! I’ll have to look into those S&S kits.
Dalcor says:
Is there any reason why they lost “Aggresive” ? In my point of view and in tradition of Kurt Mayer Aufklarung Abteilungs was the most aggresive. With lost of Aggresive and Panzerschreck are they still only -1 against Elite PG?
Also I am missing SdKfz 250/10 which were delivered to platoon leaders of 250/1. I am still missing 250/9 coaxial MG as it has same turret as 222.
I believe even 251/1 has to be available along with other 251 versions for schwere kompanies
Andy says:
No, just an oversight. If you were playing them as elites you can take “aggressive” if you want, it doesn’t have a big effect on the game.
As for vehicles, you should include anything that real life units had available. For the 250/10 you could just use the same stats for the 251/10.
You’re right about the coax being missing on the 250/9, I’ve submitted that to be fixed.
Laffe says:
I bought this way back in the early 2000’s for use as an autocannon in my Steel Legion 40k force.
As you say it’s not bad, but it’s way overscale. I think it’s actually 1/48 scale, but I don’t have an 1/48 gun to compare with. Bear in mind that the model was before 1/56 became a popular choice for 28mm figures. I believe all their guns and vehicles are actually 1/48.
I also have their Hanomag which is a close to impossible to assemble due to the bad fit of the parts. That was also bought in the early 2000, if they haven’t remade the moulds I would steer well clear of that one.
Andy says:
They’ve dropped all vehicles from sale on their site. So I guess you weren’t the only person who had issues with them.
Laffe says:
Ah… well I guess they don’t hold up to all the nice resin and plastic kits coming out nowadays anyway.
Neal says:
I must say you made the final product look very nice!
I’ve avoided the BTD guns/vehicles because of things like this that I’ve heard about them. I do like most of their WWII figure ranges though.
Neal says:
One thing… I do own an airbrush, but for the last 1-2 years I’ve been doing the sort of “stipple” effect you talk about. It’s much faster and it really looks more like what a Private would be doing in the field… 🙂
Andy says:
Heh, that’s what I tell people about German late war camo: there is literally no way to get it wrong. Whatever go awful thing you slap on it, you can find a real vehicle that looked like that. Some of them were completely random.
Andy says:
Looks like they’ve completely pulled the vehicle range, but the guns are still on offer.
From the sound of it they used to have a really good sculptor for their miniatures, hence why so many people recommend them. Some of the more recent sculpts and all the vehicles and guns are well dodgy, though.
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Nice paint job Andy, I am slowly scratch building a pak 40 and yes the gun should have a low profile.
cheers John
Matt1066 says:
Thanks for the detailed review Andy. Think I might just stick with the Warlord model, as and when I get around to it!! Good result with the painting and modelling though! :o)
Andy says:
The Warlord one looks good I reckon. Phil has one and you can see it in some of our recent battle reports on here. The Artizan one also looks really nice, too.
John Michael says:
Very nicely painted. Yes I agree with list 4 as the cons do add up.
John
Neal says:
Added to the Consolidated Arsenal!!!! 🙂
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Nice work Andy, thanks for the extra info for Chain of Command Support , its good to know the advantages and disadvantages of selecting one, I have always wondered in what List a Bren with Vickers MG would fit in .
cheers John
Andy says:
… and now you know! I’ll be playtesting it in a campaign soon. Given the very exposed firing position I was thinking of letting enemy at close range target the crew directly.
Neal says:
Let me know of your testing results and any “notes” you think should be added to the CA.
Laffe says:
Oooh, I’ve missed that one. Thanks!
And excellent painting. Very nice!
Matt1066 says:
Another excellent piece of kit sir!
Dalibor Zeman says:
Thank you Andy for clarification 🙂
Nicholas Caldwell says:
Tense and exciting — even though this is the 3rd time over the same terrain! It would have been nice to see the wrecked vehicles. If the Brits do manage to finally break the Germans next battle, what are their odds looking like for the campaign? It seems from the reports that they’ve truly stalled and that never bodes well.
Phil says:
Nicholas,
As commander of the Germans, I suspect that if the British get past the farm they’ll have a good chance of winning the campaign. German resources are slim and will only get worse, while the British have a lot of support. However, we will continue to drive the tommies into the sea !! Not one step backwards 😄😄
Andy says:
The Brits could salvage a narrow victory, but I’d have to win the next three games on the trot. If the Germans win any of them and have enough smash left in them to launch a counter-attack they’ll win the campaign as I’ll be left well short of Rauray by Turn 11. So it’s (literally) and uphill battle all the way up the Rauray Spur for the Polar Bears.
Looks like the might of the British Army has been stopped cold by a bunch of spotty schoolboys.
Phil says:
There lies the problem. As the Germans are only at 60% strength and have very little support, it’s very difficult to mount a realistic counter attack.
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Excellent AAR , thanks Andy for sharing ,always look forward to them.
cheers John
George says:
Nice report again Andy. Some lovely troops there.
Andy says:
Phil’s Germans are mint. He’s done a great job on them.
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Nice work Andy, One day you will need them.
Thanks for pointing out the advantage of deploying them as a squad.
cheers John
Neal says:
FYI, I happened to be looking at this list and noticed the discussions, etc. 🙂
I’ve fixed the submits Andy. I’ve also added the other vehicles you still had in the unit arsenal at the bottom of the list.
I’ve also added an entry for the 250/10.
Thanks guys!!!!!!
Andy says:
Thanks Neal!
Nicholas Caldwell says:
GREAT review – I just bought these rules and I must say you’ve really provided here not just a review but a primer on using the rules. I had missed the bit about how suppression works, for instance. Also — “arresting perps in Mega-City One” — ooooooh, that’s a nice idea!
Andy says:
The suppression rule is one of my favourite bits of Black Ops. It’s really simple and works brilliantly.
Not sure how stealthy Judge Dredd would be though… not really his style? They do mention you can play it as a straight up wargame without the stealth phase, but I’ve never actually tried.
Rob says:
Looks a great game. Be nice to see a small battle report.
Andy says:
Look no further!
I’ve got some proper commando miniatures to paint up for WW2 raids, and I bought a pile of mercenary and secret agent types for moderns. Just need to slap some paint on them…
Neal says:
This is timely… 🙂
I have just gotten a pack of Warlord Partizans to mix in with other Soviets to give some flavor to a regular/irregular partizan unit, but I was looking at getting some more of these next time the BTD sale hits.
I agree that the website pictures are not appealing and had actually stopped me from getting some of these before.
Andy says:
Sorry about the fuzzy pictures of painted ones then! Is there such a thing as a “bad photography day”?
Anonymous says:
🙂 Your pictures are great and let me see the figures much better! I definitely will be getting some now.
Neal says:
Decided to not wait for the Black Friday sale and went for the Halloween 40% off sale… 🙂
Andy says:
Yeah, a bit tempted by that one myself. But I’d just be buying for the sake of it…
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Thanks Andy , great read and noting the lessons learnt.
cheers John
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Great AAR read, very helpful
cheers
Anibal Invic says:
Great report indeed!!
I love your animated powerpoints, what application are you using??
Andy says:
Haha, it’s not Powerpoint. I use Battle Chronicler and take a snapshot of the state of the table at the end of each turn. Then when you display that series of images as a slideshow on the site it looks animated. So I cheat, basically.
John Michael says:
terrific write up, starting this campaign saturday as the scots.
Andrew Holmes says:
One small comment. when the German player ended the turn to remove the second Brit JOP, should the bunker have then collapsed, as it was unstable at that point? That would have potentially wounded/killed a few more Jerrys
Andy says:
Hmm, I think you’re right. We forgot all about that.
Andrew Holmes says:
Excellent AAR by the way. I love your graphics
Andrew Holmes says:
Oops, looked at the German support choices, they add up to 12 points in the Martlet lists. Did they get something extra as a campaign bonus?
Andy says:
We’re not using the support list values straight from the Martlet book, we’re using this slightly tweaked version: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19sQHvq84fbZ29lXSzTTNLQsM1xlRFnkn5lTbmZQuuHU/edit?usp=sharing
Basically it’s the same for all the infantry stuff, but the guns and tanks use the values off the Consolidated Arsenal, so List 4 for the Pak 40.
Andrew Holmes says:
Personally, I’ve never been able to take advantage of a medic, and only Germans tend to benefit from Adjutant. As British, I tend to take a second PIAT or 2 inch mortar. It sounds from your action like another PIAT would have been useful to defend the JOPs. So easy with hindsight, I admit
Andy says:
The adjutant was definitely useful. I did have both my SLs on table. A Sherman and a PIAT should have been able to tackle a single PZIV between them, I was just unlucky. I hit the panzer about a dozen times and did a fair bit of damage to it, but never got a kill result or enough shock.
Greg Padilla (Redmist1122) says:
Andy, I’m a big fan/follower of you campaigns for CoC, but here’s my first post response.
Having played the Brits a few times and have gone up against them a lot as the German player, here are a few things which may help you in this scenario or other follow-on scenarios in your campaign; Use the crap out of that 2″ mortar to drop smoke everywhere, to not only protect you from fire but also to blind the Germans. It would appear on your diagrams the Germans were all concentrated – drop that s**t right in front of them. Next you have to set some sort of diversion, say from the far off JOP in the field. Last utilize your Piat and Demo teams into tank-hunters. These guys should be concentrating on that Panzer IV. I believe with the joint use of smoke and these specialized teams, you would either knock out the tank or make it think twice rolling around in the open. Finally if you’re able, get a flame thrower; very deadly for personnel. but also for tanks too.
Good luck
Andy says:
Hi Greg,
Yes, the 2″ mortar is awesome. I did drop some smoke on the house, but the game was decided before the assault on the farm compound took place. The Germans in the farm actually never fired a shot all game. No flamethrower available to the Brits in this campaign, I’m afraid!
Phil says:
Greg, your comments are interesting, but Andy would need a lot of support points to take all of that stuff and he would need a lot of very good dice rolling to be able to use it all. I agree that firing smoke in front of the farm house would have restricted me, but to do that is to use up activations that you suggest should be used elsewhere. All I’ve got to do as the Germans is wait for Andy to come through the smoke and blast him at short range in the open. The first time we played this scenario, Andy used a lot of smoke, got into the farm yard and then I ended the turn, clearing the smoke and leaving his troops totally exposed.
Andy’s idea for this game was spot on, but to hit my Panzer IV 8 times and not destroy it is extremely unlucky and I was able to make good use of Andy’s misfortune. “C’est le Guerre !!”
Greg Padilla (Redmist1122) says:
Got ya! Didn’t see the smoke in the pics. But bad dice can make for a long day, especially when you the tank eight times. I must say, I know its easy to do the Monday Quarterback stuff, but couldn’t help commenting on a game w/Brits as the folks here just dominate with that dame 2″ mortar and the luck shots with the Piat…trust me I’ve been on the receiving end several times, and once giving a long, but lucky two Piat shots on two tanks. As always I really enjoy your AARs and look forward to Andy beating this map.
Take care.
Nicholas Caldwell says:
Great report and great game. It’s easy to say in retrospect that perhaps you should have concentrated on the farm, but I think I’d have done the same thing you did. Sounds more like a bit of bad luck – this could easily have gone the other way. The Panzer crew is well deserving of that medal! Your reports are so well written — I’ve had to pack up my toys in preparation for a move so it’s great to be able to read your exploits. It’s almost like being at the table!
Anonymous says:
Superb
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Love your AAR Andy, one word of advice “breath test your officers before going onto battle” 🙂
too bad for the PIAT team, would have been interesting if they did rearm.
looking forward to your next one.
cheers John
Andy says:
Thanks John. It’s been quite amusing watching the lieutenant’s mood lurch around due to his drinking. He’s AWOL for the next game, but should return for the final smash up of the campaign. And he’s sobered up, too!
Hannah at Doxzoo says:
Hey Andy,
Thank you for the mention 🙂
It’s worth noting that we offer a 20% discount for new customers, which help eases the cost. Your readers can register at doxzoo.com/registration to grab their discount code.
We hope to print more of your wargame bits and bobs soon!
Best wishes,
Hannah at Doxzoo
Jacob says:
Great job on the carriers. Does warlord have rules for using the 50 cals on them?
Andy says:
You mean for Bolt Action? Don’t know. If they don’t, they should as it was a pretty common conversion done in the field.
Andrew Miller says:
For me, it will always be Chain of Command.
Andy says:
Well, me too. But I recognise that we’re a minority and that there are tons of people having fun playing BA.
Ian Bowyer says:
The field defences are great; I have copied them without reservation but I have a question on the Czech Hedgehogs. What paint do you use to prime the plastic angle ? I used Humbrol Acrylic Matt Black and it does not seem to adhere to the plastic. I have thought about roughing them up with a file or sandpaper but it will be rather fiddly work.
Any suggestions or advice will gratefully received
Andy says:
Oooh, it was a while ago Ian and I don’t remember. Probably just matt black spray paint. If I was doing it properly I probably would have used a spray plastic primer (automotive ones are fine).
Dan says:
You’ve mentioned elsewhere that you use 6 dice for all vehicle MGs. Is that the case for the top mounted 50cal here as well?
Andy says:
No, HMGs (and SFMGs) both get ten dice, with the HMGs also reducing cover by one level. They’re nasty!
Dan says:
Not sure how you arrived at List 5 then? 4 (Armour) + 2 (AP) + 10(HMG) + 1(Hull MG) + 2(Fast) +1(Low Profile) -1(Open turret) = 19 -> List 6
Andy says:
Weapons which still roll against troop quality such as MGs, HMGs and autocannons don’t pay the full price for their HE value. They only pay 2/3.
Dan says:
Weapons which reduce cover such as HMGs and autocannons pay full price.
“H.E. effect is actually better phrased as “anti-infantry effect”, so a vehicle with an HMG is rated as 6, as it fires 6D6. A vehicle with an MMG or LMG, which do not reduce cover, is rated as 4, i.e. two thirds of an HMG”
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Nice modelling Andy, thanks for the review and the CoC stats . Yes, like the Rubicon models they tend to be more solid compared to the Italeri kits, the Recce version of the Stuart looks great, tempted to make one.
cheers John
Matt says:
Lovely work sir! Will have to take a closer look at Rubicon kits :o)
Andy says:
Cheers guys. All the Rubicon stuff is 25% off at PSC this weekend, btw. Just bought a pile of their Opel Blitzes.
Jamie Herbert says:
Honestly I play Bolt Action, and had not heard much or anything about chain of command, I have no reason to trash on it, but I will pick up a copy, and give it a whirl, who knows? I may have another world war 2 game to play and run.
Andy says:
CoC is great, but where it really shines is as a campaign system. If you want to give it a crack I’d highly recommend also picking up the supplement “At the Sharp End” and having a rummage through the Pint Sized Campaigns, which give you a series of about 6-12 linked games for about £3.
Nick Jones says:
Interesting!
I’m a great fan of lopsided scenarios as they make players really think. I’ve been gaming US naval operations against Iran in the 1980s and games are tense but not even slightly balanced. The US player is constrained by Rules of Engagement and with overwhelming force their pride is severely dented by ANY damage. The Iranian player gets to hide F4s in commercial air corridors or missile boats amongst the merchant traffic and can decide when and where to attack – if they aren’t in a good position they can pull back and try again elsewhere. Of course the patience of the US player can run out and they may fire first (a victory for Iran anyway) but figuring out how far to push it adds to the tension and excitement.
Nick
Andy says:
That sounds like exactly the kind of thing I’m getting at Nick. If you introduce things like ROE and different victory conditions you can have a game that’s really asymmetric but still fun.
John Michael says:
Very nicely done, I think this vehicle will be probably next up on my acquisition list. In 1/72 of course. John
Laffe says:
It looks the biz. Well done!
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Nice work Andy.
cheers John
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Hi Andy are these the latest Platoon force ratings ?
cheers JOhn
Andy says:
Last updated in Jan I think, John.
George says:
Get moving on those Bretons Andy, look forward to meeting them on the field of honour.
Andy says:
Slowly getting there, George…
Mikhail Zevlaznog says:
Hello Andy, your temple guards look awesome. I’m beginning the game and bought an old lizardmen stock on Ebay. I wonder if the actual plastic halberds could fit well on old temple guards from 96. Thanks in advance for your anwer, and keep up the good work !
Mikhail
Andy says:
I’m sure you should be able to get that to work one way or another Mikhail. You playing Age of Sigmar or Oldhammer?
Mikhail says:
Hey Andy ! Si I think I’m going to buy some bitz for my almost vintage temple guards. The former owner put weapons from actual saurus warriors and I was not really convinced by this look. They barely looked threatening ! I am playing age of sigmar. I Always thought Warhammer was not for me because of the rules and all the books. Playing AoS with Friends convinced me, even if I think it needs some advanced rules. Keep up the good work,your modèls are beautiful !
Mikhail Zevlaznog says:
Ok then , thanks for the advice. i’ll watch bitzbox like you did. I play AoS !
John Michael says:
Very interesting, I will try to get a look.
Tony Rodwell says:
Nice review Andy.
Piers Taylor says:
My main issue with the programme was the real lack of showing what was going on in the battle. The editing on this aspect I thought was really poor, and made it very hard to follow the detail of the battle. Footage from the battle often being shown out of sequence. Probably too much time was given over to looking at Gregg Wallace reacting to things, though I do think his enthusiasm was definitely a good thing and he clearly knew what it was all about.
Andy says:
Fair point, I too found that it was sometimes difficult to follow what was happening in the battle. Conveying everything that’s going on a dynamic environment like that is tricky though, as they’ve got to cover both the virtual action in the simulation, and the real action between the players.
Matt1066 says:
That’s a very balanced and thoughtful review Andy, spot on really.
George says:
Good luck with 2017.
Andy says:
Cheers George, same to you!
Ric Walters says:
Andy, could one use thin sheet styrene for the bridge decking and avoid the warping issue? Also, wonder if using magnets to join the sections might be an option. Nice build and scenic job, Ric
Andy says:
I’m sure that would work fine, Ric. I had actually thought since building it that I should have put some magnets into the mating ends.
Greg Padilla (Redmist1122) says:
Don’t have any Brits in my collection, but I do like what you have to them. The paint scheme looks really good along with the basing. Nice touch with the rank insignias. I really like the BTD figures. I was really please with their German Mountain Troops.
Neal says:
I NEED to do this, but I’m just not that organized… 🙂
Maybe I should go ahead and at least try…
Andy says:
All you need to do is take a snap when you’re done and email it in with a one-liner about what you’ve painted. Easy peasy Neal.
January is a good time to start, too!
Tim Brian says:
Just ordered this game, thanks for a good review. I think this game would also let one play as the bad guys due to the “stealth mode”. I’m thinking about trying to recreate the North Hollywood bank robbery from the 90s, and play as the2 robbers 😀
Andy says:
Cool. One of the things I like about the ruleset is how it offers the chance to do games other than pitched battles between military forces. I think cops and robbers or spies vs supervillains would be great fun.
George says:
Damn you Andy, been looking for one of these to offset Flakvierling.
Andy says:
You can never have too much dakka dakka on table, George!
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Great info Andy and nice model, I bought one of these kits as well a while back hoping to start a desert army but noticed the AA turret and decided to make a MK II instead of a tank.
Can you help me with a question on the weapon, I thought you hit with a 4+ since its under the HE round section? cheers John
Andy says:
John, check out 11.8.1 in the rules. HMGs and autocannons roll to hit as if small arms. Their higher rate of fire has been factored into their HE value. Bigger guns firing single shots hit on a 4+. Autocannons still do reduce cover though, like other HE.
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Ok thanks Andy, I recently played in a tournament where the German player insisted that his armoured vehicle mounting a 20mm cannon, HE hit on 4+, will have to correct him on that one.
Andy says:
Well, close range is 24″ so at less than that you will hit regulars on 4+. But beyond that, 5+.
To be fair to your opponent, it’s a slightly obscure rule tucked away in a quiet corner of the book. I’ve run into loads of people who weren’t aware of it and just thought anything with an HE rating always hit on 4+.
Ric Walters says:
Nice job Andy. The finish is superb. It looks like a well maintained but used vehicle. Not like the current “art form” of making an AFV look like it’s been under an avalanche of rocks and then left in a field to rot for half a decade – i.e.: chipping and rusting an in service vehicle to the point of wondering if the regiment even had a maintenance depot…..
Andy says:
Cheers Ric. Yeah, I feel the same about units in NW Europe with incredibly “weathered” vehicles. Most vehicles would only have been in the field for a few weeks or months, tops. North Africa with sandstorms and stuff on vehicles that were a couple of years old, go for it.
Matt OS says:
They are marvellous Andy!!
Raf says:
Andy,
So for the purposes of fielding an Aufklarungs Platoon IAW CoC unit compositions, what is:
The number of Bikes w sidecar and any other vehicles required to lift this Platoon for a 1941 Barbarossa scenario? How big would this Platoon be when dismounted when you account for the Bike picquets etc.. Will they have 1 MG34 per section or more ?
Going forward into 1942+ are these guys giving up their Bikes for the Sdkfz250s? Is it now becoming a fully Armoured organisation based on the known recce vehicles ?
Andy says:
This list is just for Mar 1943 to the end of the war. Earlier bicycle, motorcycle and kubelwagen recce units would need their own list, with the relevant supports.
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Nice bargain and paint job
cheers John
Philip says:
I absolutely adore your AARs man. Great, great stuff.
If only I had someone to play regularly with, so to play a campaign.
Nicholas Caldwell says:
Another great game report! Reading the bit about the discovery of the Panzer IV really sounded like a WW2 combat report — so many memoirs focus on these little unexpected moments in a battle. I love that the CoC deployment system enables this. So despite the win during this battle, it looks like the Brits may not have enough time left to win the overall campaign?
Andy says:
Haha, definitely not. The chance of a win exited a few games back. They’re now playing to try and restrict the Germans to a narrow victory instead of a thumping one.
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Thanks for sharing your great AAR Andy, like the use of your dug in Brits.
cheers John
Andy says:
Cheers John,
You should see the dug in boys a fair bit in the near future. We’ll be going straight into The Scottish Corridor after Martlet and the Brits will be firmly on the defensive.
John Michael says:
Really a terrific write up, I will make more comments on the Forum
Phil says:
Great campaign Andy, I really enjoyed it. Thank’s very much. It was also the most difficult wargame I’ve ever played. Looking forward to the Scottish corridor …………… no mortars and plenty of Tiger tanks !!!
Andy says:
Sure, but if I manage to delay you long enough I get the A-bomb, right?
Looking forward to swapping roles for Scottish Corridor. This time you can do all the attacking!
Nicholas Caldwell says:
Ouch, that Panther really dominated the game! I don’t blame the poor bloody infantry for being cautious moving about with that beast lurking around lighting up Shermans left and right.
Fantastic campaign, fantastic battle reports – I’ve really enjoyed reading each and every one of them and it’s always a treat to see an update notice show up in my inbox. Cheers and thanks for sharing – best, Nick
Philip says:
as always fantastic! Looking forward to the Scottish Corridor.
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Great AAR Andy, I hope one day to start playing some of the campaign games.
cheers John
Andy says:
Do it John! It completely changes the way you play the game (very much for the better). We very rarely play CoC outside of a campaign these days.
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Agree Andy, after following your excellent AAR it does bring a new dimension to the game.
cheers John
Andrew says:
Thanks for these notes, very useful. The patrol and have also covers placing of jump off points, and this is also worthy of discussion, though perhaps not a full article. For example, it is tempting to place your JOPs as far forward as possible, especially in attack. However for the defender it is often helpful to place some or all of them further back. This allows the defender to delay deploying their forces until they can determine the attacker’s main axis, and also reduces the risk of having a jop overrun.
Andy says:
I think I do touch on that briefly with reference to the 1-up 2-back and 2-up 1-back options for JOPs. Also see the article Rich wrote and to which I’ve linked at the top of the article, which covers the topic in much more detail.
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
thanks for the info Andy, I should try to be more strategic with placement of my Patrol markers
cheers John
Dick Bryant says:
Great report – loved every minute of it. I was fascinated on how the terrain pieces changed from play-to-play of the same scenario, It widened the scope of the games I run as I was trying to be very slavish to the scenarios as mapped.
Andy says:
Yep, close enough is close enough as far as we’re concerned.
Lance says:
I followed your whole campaign and thoroughly enjoyed it.
When using British, i’ve always had the section Corporal spend his points to get the Bren to target just the MG42. They either get taken out or it forces their NCO to keep replacing the crew thereby shrinking the rifle team. I’ve had lots of luck so far. Are you going to show your Scottish Corridor campaign as well?
Cheers
Andy says:
Yep, keep an eye out for some Scottish Corridor stuff in the next couple of weeks.
Nicholas Caldwell says:
Putting that red tuft of flowers on the base on that first miniature is inspired! Consider that idea stolen. These look great – and with Test of Honor on its way I’ll be painting some ninjas as soon as I dig them out of the lead pile. They look great – thanks for the painting tips.
Andy says:
Cheers. Besides giving it a splash of colour, those flowers are there so I can mark that guy out as a leader.
Matt OS says:
They’re *very* cool!
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Nice work Andy,
Agentbalzac says:
Thoroughly enjoyed reading this set of reports. A friend and I played the Martlet Campaign last year and I foundered as the Brits as well. Was tough going at the time but your reports make me think about having another crack at it.
Graham
George says:
Nice write up, just talking about this period at the club.
Andy says:
Yeah, by default Ronin deals with the Sengoku period (C16th) but there are notes in the book about adjusting it for earlier (Mongol Invasion) and later all the way up to the Boshin War. You also get Korean and Chinese lists for the fighting on the peninsular.
DAVID says:
My wife loved the idea that her fundimentally peaceful Sohei Monks could still collect heads. It is a really fun game.
Andy says:
Those “peace-loving” monks are actually pretty bad-ass. Unleashing a rank 5 grand master on a horde of ashigaru is pretty horrendous.
Julie at Zest Printing says:
Great way to print a good card game!
Greg Padilla (Redmist1122) says:
Andy,
We just started this campaign ourselves here in Tucson AZ. We complete the first two games: I’m playing the Germans and my buddy the Brits. The Germans do have to account for losses, but I think the support options could balance that out. In the second game, I had a Flamm Panzer III available, and that changed the flow in my favor. This should fun to track such a campaign myself, as my oldest son did that we played the other campaigns. Good gaming!
Greg Padilla (Redmist1122) says:
I bought a few a year ago, then another one last month at a toy show here locally. These are definitely well worth the money. I repainted mine, like you did, but I remarked them for the Hungarian army.
Andy says:
We’ve done the first two games too, Greg. Look out for the reports in the next couple of weeks! Have you written your games up? Would love to have a read.
I’ve not meet the flammpanzer yet, but I think it’s only a matter of time (basically however long it takes Phil to paint one!)
John Michael says:
Wow……it sounds like quite a challenge for the British, but I am still only half way through Marlet so lots of time to ponder things.
Dick Bryant says:
How do you find time to take all the great photos? I bring my camera, all is set-up but then I get so involved I usually forget to take any photos except one of the initial table set-up. I have a lot of those but none of the action.
Dick Bryant
Andy says:
I often get lots of photos of the early stages, then as things get busy later on I forget! But basically I’ve developed a bit of a habit of always taking snaps during my opponent’s phase.
I do need to start using a mini tripod though, some have been super blurry the last few games.
Mattias says:
Awesome report!
And both fun and interesting to see how plans seldom survive contact with reality (or this time a double phase). 🙂
/Mattias
Iain Fuller says:
Cracking write up as usual Andy, a standard we all should be aspiring to but it takes me long enough to do mine the way I do! Unfortunately for you Phil didn’t manage to muck things up the way I did (twice!). Just a quick point: You only have to track the CO and Men’s opinion if you are the Brits, the Germans have to do everything for each of their platoons. A subtle way of making it more difficult for the Germans as time goes on.
Andy says:
Well, I was going to reroll for the platoon commander each time the Brits get a fresh platoon. It probably won’t make much difference, but might inject a bit of flavour.
Dick Bryant says:
I know you answered this for someone before, but I couldn’t find it. What program do you use to get the animation you use on your maps of the action? If I miss the photos as least I could do those.
Thanks
Dick Bryant
Andy says:
I cheat. They’re just still images. I capture screenshots of the “table” in Battle Chronicler, then when you play them as a “slideshow” type gallery in WordPress it makes it appear animated.
Nicholas Caldwell says:
What an incredible reversal of fortune! Just goes to show a CoC game ain’t over until it’s over! I’d have been pretty demoralized as a player after that German turn. It’s a good reminder to keep fighting until the job is done – one way or the other. Great report as always.
Andy says:
Looking back at it I’d say the chances of the Brits winning the game were pretty minimal, the Germans just brought a ton more firepower to the party. But I gave it a good crack and it nearly paid off.
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Thanks Andy, another great AAR, maybe flamethrower teams are too cheap and need to be raised up the Support List costing ?
cheers John
Andy says:
I agree John. Since they can break a section in a couple of shots I think they should cost more than a section. List 5 minimum IMO.
Carl says:
Where do I find transfer paper and where do I find it?
Andy says:
Fair question, I’ll put some links in the article to where I got mine from.
Carl says:
Great!
Carl says:
Thanks for the links!
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Good idea Andy, thanks for sharing the info
cheers John.
Rob says:
I already have the stuff and plenty of designs. What size do i shrink the square unit markings to for 28mm tanks?
Any chance of showing us in a further update please?
Many Thanks 😉
Andy says:
Whatever size you want, Rob. Probably about 3mm-ish. I’d strongly advise do a test print on normal paper to make sure you’ve got your size and image quality right.
What bit is it you want some pointers on?
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Once again Andy, great AAR, I can sympathies with you in regards to the multiple Phases, as you know I have been on both ends of the Dice gods and its no fun either side.
cheers John
Andrew says:
Interesting game. I find that a useful counter to an enemy who refuses to deploy is to send a 2-man scout team forward to threaten his JOPs. Looking at the table, you may have been able to close down both of the German JOPs in the woods, forcing him to defend them early.
Andy says:
Interesting idea Andrew. I was defending fairly deep though, so it was a bit of a trek up to his JOPs. I’ve never had a situation before where an attacker has refused to deploy!
John Michael says:
Great report, I understand your frustration with the multiple phases.
John
Neal says:
The biggest problem I have with Warlord’s kit is that it doesn’t make the Mark VII! It’s because this had a different sized hull than all of the others.
I still need to find one of their old resin Mark VIIs! 🙂
Andy says:
Yup, and let’s face it, it’s probably the Mk VII that you want!
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Nice review Andy, great idea with the magnets.
cheers John
John Michael says:
nicely done, great idea about the sand
Antoine says:
Great Work! Do you plan to publish a list about french free force operating in italy ?
Andy says:
It’s not something I’ve done a lot of research into, to be honest. The easiest thing to do would be to just use the US list, but I don’t know how closely they followed US organisation. Then there are unusual units like the Goumiers…
Antoine DAVY says:
Thanks for your answer , i did plan to play with the us list , i was wondering if it was a project of yours to build some specifical rules for french troops fighting with us equipement.
Antoine DAVY says:
Corps_expéditionnaire_français_en_Italie
Antoine DAVY says:
https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corps_expéditionnaire_français_en_Italie
Nicholas Caldwell says:
Great report as usual and it’s nice to see the Scots gain the win. I was worried when the carrier went jetting up the road on the first turn!
Nicholas Caldwell says:
Would it be possible to add a “start of turn” title card in the animations? By the time I read through the description, the animation is usually halfway through and it’s not always obvious where to rewind to. Just a thought 🙂
Andy says:
That’s a good idea mate, I’ll see what I can come up with on the next one.
Nicholas Caldwell says:
Great review — I still have a sprue of Wargames Factory colonial British that I gave up on because it was so fiddly to assemble. Just looking at the picture of the guide to assembly made my head hurt.
Andy says:
Yeah, not really fun IMO. The Warlord WW2 British infantry were pretty bad, too. About ten parts per figure. Sod that. I do much prefer metals, you get a better looking miniature for less effort.
Ric Walters says:
I’m currently working on a platoon of Warlord’s American infantry. While the body is one piece for four of the figures, aligning the separate arms to hold the individual weapons is a test of patience. If I planned on doing up more than a platoon for Chain of Command, I’d be well on my way to being committed to the local mental institution. What a mess. I am a bit less apprehensive of the new American paras. The arms and weapon are one piece. One might argue that this prevents variety in the finished figures, but the separate arms and weapons can only be “adjusted” so much and one still ends up with poses being very similar amongst the group. I haven’t tried the British infantry yet, but have a box on the shelf.
Andy says:
For CoC I tend to do my core platoon in metal, but usually get a box of plastics to make up all those extra bits and pieces like weapons crew, engineers, medics, etc. That’s where the plastics really shine IMO, converting them into something other than standard riflemen.
Matt S says:
BZ’s for this page, and the blog as a whole! Thanks
Greg Padilla (Redmist1122) says:
I had to do a double…no triple look at the logos on the small flags…genius!
Andy says:
Pretty easily done, too Greg.
Matt1066 says:
Andy, this is absolutely fantastic! Love the SW theme too, very cleverly done. Really looking forward to seeing how you get on with Ronin. A few years back I had the rules and two sets of figures but eventually ebayed the lot. Doh!?
Andy says:
I’ve enjoyed Ronin before Matt, but the recent buzz around ToH has given me a push to get some half-finished stuff completed. Good little set of rules. Gaming at this level is all about the scenario, I like that Ronin is flexible enough to allow you to be quite creative.
Matt1066 says:
Andy… what’s “ToH” ? Cheers, Matt.
Andy says:
Test of Honour, a new game-in-a-box thing from Warlord.
The Wargames Table says:
Just *seven* figures? Wow, even I could paint an “army” Ronin! 😀 😀
Nice!
Matt
Andy says:
That’s for a 200pt game, which I reckon is a good level for a club night. I always find the problem with these skirmish games is that you look at the figure count; say “Ho ho, this will be easy!” then end up having to make shedloads of terrain!
Gary says:
Thanks for the excellent review of Japanese miniatures. I have a bunch of the Dixon (Sumo) miniatures. UGH they are never going to see my painting table.
Emilio Moskowich says:
Nice report.
Who does make the garage?
Andy says:
That one’s from Warbases I think: https://warbases.co.uk/?product=workshop
Emilio Moskowich says:
Thanks!
Emilio Moskowich says:
So the japanese use horreos like in my country!! LOL
The Wargames Table says:
A thorough, comprehensive and well thought out review of available miniatures. Have you thought of writing for WI or WSS, this is the sort of well-balanced review they need. Thanks! Matt.
oozeboss says:
Excellent review. Now all we need to fan the sparks its generated into a fully blown fire are some AAR’s of the scope and quality of your excellent Chain of Command series.
Andy says:
Keep an eye out mate! 😉
oozeboss says:
More addictive stuff in this enthralling campaign. Keep up the good work.
John Michael says:
Intersting Report, the cumulative effect of the Men’s Opinion really becomes difficult to overcome as the campaign progresses.
JOHN BOND's WARGAMING STUFF says:
Thanks Andy for the AAR, thoroughly enjoyed reading, poor Brits overcome by the dreaded German firepower.
cheers John
Andy says:
Often the way. I’m sure the righteousness of their cause will allow them to achieve final victory over the evil fascists. God knows it isn’t going to be my generalship!
Sean Burt says:
Great stuff. I know this report is a bit old but I am savoring all the content on your site. Fantastic work! I intend to read through all your campaigns. I have played a few games of CoC myself but I am struggling to get local gaming friends to see the light. I think the ‘at the sharp end” system and the pint sized campaigns are just brilliant and a much more interesting and engaging way to play WW2 war games.
John Michael says:
I have the ruleset and some figures but have never played. You are extremely fortunate that you have a regular set of gamers.
Andy says:
They’re a fickle bunch though! I find the only reliable way to play the games you want is to provide two opposing sides, all the terrain, and put the game on yourself. Once you do that bodies magically appear to play it with you.
Richard Bryant says:
Great Battle Report! What did you use for the map?
Andy says:
Battle Chronicler, it’s a bit clunky and only works on Windows, but does the job.
oozeboss says:
Once more, you have produced a superlative tale of a game for which I have long lusted. I guess that I’ll just have to invest in some figures and terrain and start playing (and stop tempting me like this, Seret!) 😉 .
Andy says:
Seems like that arm needs very little twisting, to me 😉
Truscott Trotter says:
great report as usual and some bad luck for the jocks , but what happened to the armour? I nkow you run or or CI in CoC very quickly and the Firely is not much use but perhaps using the 75mm Sherman to support your advance and not rushing to the BBQ – a couple of MG’s on overwatch from the tank come in handy for this too?
Andy says:
Yep shortage of command resources! The infantry got into trouble quickly and needed all the dice. I did deploy a tank right at the end, but it was too little too late. Basically my opponent won the little paper-scissors-rock game of picking supports. I spent loads of points buying two Shermans and then held them off-table until the big cats showed up, but it turns out there were no big cats and instead loads of infantry. Stitched me right up!
Truscott Trotter says:
“However, I’m now starting to think that since it really does ruin the game when you’re on the wrong side of it it’s worth trying out one of the many house rules that people have suggested to fix the problem. We play wargames for the enjoyment and challenge, having your side trashed by the dice just isn’t any fun and is a waste of what could be a fun evening’s gaming. I don’t mind losing when it’s because I’ve played poorly or my opponent has played well, but sitting there watching impotently as all your choices and options get taken away from you by the command dice is just dull.”
Ha I agree 100% I have been convinced of this for a couple of years now – I am not saying stop the double turns completely but limit the run of them in some way. I am thinking of a variation on John Bonds method myself.
oozeboss says:
Andy: we have a sensational on-line community sharing our passion for Chain of Command, but do you know of a similar one dedicated to Ronin?
Andy says:
No, I don’t. Osprey have a rules query forum, but you have to pay to join and while there was a bit of buzz when the rules came out it’s pretty much just tumbleweed in there now.
Ian Roberts says:
Hi, will there be a list for the paratroopers (Folgore)?
Andy says:
Well, hopefully I’ll get around to do all the missing lists. Any help gratefully received!
Dalibor Zeman says:
I am looking for some Salerno scenarios and I am not sure with support lists shown for early German Italy campaign Panzer Grenadiers. I am entirely missing Flammpanzer III and Panzers III used during Salerno…
Also first Panthers showed off during Anzio. No Tiger was available at Salerno, and only 17 on them on Sicily. If I am right only one returned to mainland Italy.
Is this just oversight, or am I mising something?
Thank you for your comments and absolutely wonderfull work
Andy says:
The lists are fairly generic, and the Italian campaign was wide ranging and long. If you’ve done your own research that’s always going to trump a generic list for the whole campaign. Stuff like Tigers are included because they were involved in important actions. There may have only been 17 in Sicily, but they were at the pointy end of a counter-attack that almost pushed the allies back onto the beaches! Bottom line, if something is missing that you know we used, don’t let my list stop you, grab the stats from the Consolidated Arsenal and use it. I’ve got a campaign for Orsogna in the pipeline and the flammpanzers will definitely be making an appearance in that!
JOHN BOND wargaming stuff says:
Nice work Andy, nice and simply conversion
BRUCE says:
where can I find the prices of the items ????
Andy says:
Hi Bruce, this isn’t a shop it’s a gallery of my personal models. You can get all of the stuff above from either Warlord games or Rubicon Models.
BRUCE says:
do you have US Army tanks and trucks ????
Jason says:
Superb report. Your AARs are the Rolls Royce.
Andy says:
Yes but at Mazda prices!
oozeboss says:
Yet another enthralling report – and very easy on the eye! The Lessons Learned at at the end of each AAR are pure gold.
JOHN BOND wargaming stuff says:
Excellent AAR Andy, great work with the Brits they put up a fine fight. I thought after reading the amount of support points and lack of support points you had it would be over very quickly, just shows how a bit of strategy and luck on the Dice rolls can make a difference, too bad to could not get that last Force Morale point of the Germans. PIAT s are sometimes very frustrating.
cheers John.
Andy says:
Yep, there was definitely an element of luck on my side. My shooting dice were consistently good and I managed to get three hits on German leaders while none of mine got hit.
Tom Ballou says:
Great report, where did you get the burned out truck? It’s a nice model.
Andy says:
It’s from Anyscale Models. Cheap, too!
PatG says:
I have had this list as a back burner project in 20mm for a while now. Your troops are very impressive and quite the inspiration.
Andy says:
Looking forward to seeing your take on it in 20mm then, Pat!
I think the unit starts to get interesting when you get to the stuff on the support list. Lots of heavy weapons and field defences! I’ve got wire, minefields, etc and I’ve also just finished a 45mm and a Zis-3.
John Michael says:
that was a real interesting read. great project
JOHN BOND wargaming stuff says:
Nice paint work on the figures , your an expert when it comes to making foxholes and bunkers.
cheers John
James says:
Really enjoying your write-ups, very impressive; lovely table and the animated maps are excellent!
Tom Ballou says:
The upgraded animations are excellent! Oh so close, you almost pulled it off!
borntubnature says:
It was not only the primary German light anti-aircraft gun, but by far the most numerously produced German artillery piece throughout the war.
Greg Padilla (Redmist1122) says:
I completely understand when you talked about the assembly of Warlords gun pieces. I have several, and all were built in similar fashion as yours. Once completed, they look really nice. Like you, playing CoC, you need th extra crews. Someone told me about the Plastic Soldier company which makes this gun and two other optional ones in the same set, but come with eight crew figures and a lot of ammo crates open/closed and empty shell rounds. I don’t own much plastic figs, but this worked well. Your model and set-up look excellent…great job!
Andy says:
I did look at the PSC ones. Like you say, you get a couple of guns including a very tempting infantry gun. But the Warlord one was on sale so I snapped it up!
Jon says:
Looks good, does the leader loose the trench if he needs to move? Just a thought.
PatG says:
I would rule that the trench stays, if only because of that bottle of vodka he has hidden in the grenade sump.
Andy says:
Yeah, if he moves he’s now on foot instead of dug in, but chances are he’ll quickly attach himself to another dug-in unit, so you sort have the phenomenon of the teleporting foxhole. Hence why I dithered about whether to model him on foot or in the foxhole. If I was being really organised I’d make an identical model of him on foot, so he can jump in and out of his pit as much as he likes.
Jon says: